coronavirus discussion

[SkinnyPupp]

Next few months are going to be worse than the first few... Be vigilant. Don't horde but maybe prepare for a lockdown

[Hehe]

I've said it before, but I think it's definitely worth repeating again.

Stop urging people to use masks and focus on track and tracing!

We are already at a stage where people who would use masks are already using, and people who wouldn't, probably still wouldn't unless absolutely required and enforceable (on public transportation, going into stores... etc. The enforceability is refusal of service)

By continuing the whole mask argument only create a sense of fake security. By having a mask on, it doesn't mean that you are 100% protected. There are many other variables that come into play... not to mention that the quality of masks we are having are questionable at best.

We need to start following successful countries like Taiwan or South Korea... take our pick on the method and follow through.

South Korea basically test every single person and try to isolate anyone infected.

Taiwan focuses heavily on track and tracing with major public hubs (school, subway, train station... etc) armed with body temp reading everywhere. As soon as there's any elevated reading, the person needs to be tested as well as those who came into close proximity.

If we don't do that, as twitchyzero said... we might as well open the border... our condition aren't that much better than our neighbor states if not worse considering all the testing, rates... etc that get factor into. Our effort attempting to suppress it is also not exactly better. Only comparing to WA, their curve has basically stabilized for the last 30+ days... and if you take out Seattle, which is the epicenter of the pandemic in WA, all our direct neighboring counties are doing probably better than any part of lower mainland.

For all the cry how fucked up US is doing, we might want to really think whether we are actually doing anything better than them if everything else being equal (test rates, health care capacity... etc)

[!LittleDragon]

Originally Posted by pastarocket

Halloween is on a Saturday this year. It just so happens that Daylight Savings Time also ends on this weekend. We fall back one hour on Saturday night.

An extra hour for people to be at their Halloween parties or blow up more fireworks/fire crackers. More opportunities for Covid to spread in BC.

It's also a full moon... lol

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by Hehe

I've said it before, but I think it's definitely worth repeating again.

Stop urging people to use masks and focus on track and tracing!

We are already at a stage where people who would use masks are already using, and people who wouldn't, probably still wouldn't unless absolutely required and enforceable (on public transportation, going into stores... etc. The enforceability is refusal of service)

By continuing the whole mask argument only create a sense of fake security. By having a mask on, it doesn't mean that you are 100% protected. There are many other variables that come into play... not to mention that the quality of masks we are having are questionable at best.

We need to start following successful countries like Taiwan or South Korea... take our pick on the method and follow through.

South Korea basically test every single person and try to isolate anyone infected.

Taiwan focuses heavily on track and tracing with major public hubs (school, subway, train station... etc) armed with body temp reading everywhere. As soon as there's any elevated reading, the person needs to be tested as well as those who came into close proximity.

If we don't do that, as twitchyzero said... we might as well open the border... our condition aren't that much better than our neighbor states if not worse considering all the testing, rates... etc that get factor into. Our effort attempting to suppress it is also not exactly better. Only comparing to WA, their curve has basically stabilized for the last 30+ days... and if you take out Seattle, which is the epicenter of the pandemic in WA, all our direct neighboring counties are doing probably better than any part of lower mainland.

For all the cry how fucked up US is doing, we might want to really think whether we are actually doing anything better than them if everything else being equal (test rates, health care capacity... etc)

All those countries also enforced masks. As strictly as necessary (which mostly wasn't necessary, because people aren't stupid enough to go against it because they know it works).

Mask wearing is still the most effective thing we can do. Don't argue against it, it's just stupid to do that.

Track and trace too, but not IN PLACE of masks. That would be stupid. That would be literally ignoring reality, and track and trace would be useless because so many more people would be getting sick.

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

All those countries also enforced masks. As strictly as necessary (which mostly wasn't necessary, because people aren't stupid enough to go against it because they know it works).

Mask wearing is still the most effective thing we can do. Don't argue against it, it's just stupid to do that.

Track and trace too, but not IN PLACE of masks. That would be stupid. That would be literally ignoring reality, and track and trace would be useless because so many more people would be getting sick.

Taiwan never enforced a mask wearing policy except on public transportation, which we also do.

My argument is not AGAINST mask wearing. Please get that point clear. I'm saying that the method we are doing is wrong and not properly addressing the problem. Moreover, we put in restrictions that might have limited effect on stopping the spread, but HUGE consequences on everything else.

Take the border closure and the distancing in restaurant for example.

Many of our industries like tourism relies heavily on American visitors. You closed that, all those industries, and those connected to them have to suffer. And how many are we stopping exactly when there are still daily flights in-n-out of our airports to many destination around the world.

Distancing in restaurant is so stupid IMHO. It's a CLOSED space for god sake. If someone infected with the virus goes in there, the distance between the tables would not matter.

All these "policies" in place aren't actually making our life easier/safer. But just a way for politicians to say that they are doing SOMETHING.

Taiwan never shut down the country. Thus it never needed to pay billions in handouts and thus its economy suffered little effect from the pandemic on a domestic level.

So the question we need to ask ourselves, as Canadians... are we actually doing anything better? Or are we just doing SOMETHING for the sake of doing anything. And what about the consequences of these actions?

[SkinnyPupp]

Border closing, mask enforcement, actual social distancing (including strict policies on dining), and track and trace are the policies taken in Asia that worked. It's not "just something politicians say". We had a second wave in Hong Kong and killed it dead with these policies, which have been dialed back a bit since, and people still wear masks 99% of the time so it hasn't come back since.

Do all of these things, but especially masks because that's the easiest and cheapest way to have a somewhat normal life when you do have to go out.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by Hehe

aren't that much better than our neighbor states if not worse considering all the testing, rates... etc that get factor into. Our effort attempting to suppress it is also not exactly better. Only comparing to WA, their curve has basically stabilized for the last 30+ days... and if you take out Seattle, which is the epicenter of the pandemic in WA, all our direct neighboring counties are doing probably better than any part of lower mainland.

For all the cry how fucked up US is doing, we might want to really think whether we are actually doing anything better than them if everything else being equal (test rates, health care capacity... etc)

If you take out the worst parts of our neighbouring states, we are doing just as bad!
That's not how it works though. You don't get to pick and choose random parts of one comparison to another comparison to make things look better or worse. Thats called manipulating statistics, and it's nothing more than a fancy way of lying.
I know you love to choose to ignore facts to support your argument but per capita 3x more people are dying in the US than Canada. If you want to just start removing states and cities from the US' numbers you need to remove the comparable provinces and cities from Canadian statistics.

[spoon.ek9]

Hehe, you need to understand what it means when it comes to droplet precautions. Limited capacity in restaurants does in fact mitigate risk of transmission. Droplet particles can only travel so far (hence the 6ft rule). Obviously if it's a tiny enclosed space then no one should be dining in at those particular restaurants nor should they be allowed to serve in-store. If you're in a large enough place with tables that have sufficient distance, your risk is quite low. Is it ideal? of course not. But you can bet that the restaurant industry would rather operate at limited capacity instead of 0%.

You're looking at this from a political stand point and quite frankly you shouldn't be. Look at the science, not the vague possibility that it's all just for show. It's easy to be cynical. Try looking at the scientific side of things instead.

[68style]

When does Hehe’s instruction manual for success in all facets of life come out? He’s got literally everything figured out. Does he have a podcast? Is it available on iTunes? How many followers does he have?

[twitchyzero]

given that we supposedly have better policies and health care system vs our landlocked neighbour yet we are still racing towards a lockdown

[68style]

Vancouver Coastal Health this weekend: 109
Fraser Valley Health: 665

It’s all the fuckin rednecks and anti-mask people (and, I hate to say it, all the giant weddings happening illegally at farms in Abbotsford) fucking this up

[Hehe]

Again, I'm not arguing against any policy in particular. They all play some roles.

What I want to discuss is about their effects vs. their associated costs. Again, using the 2 examples already discussed

Closing the borders - how long can we continue to do this and at what cost?
Americans account for a large proportion of our tourism dollars. By closing the border, sure, we prevent Americans potentially carrying the virus, that's the effect but ALSO, the vast majority of Americans who don't carry the virus, the cost.

The virus is estimated to only be controlled with a vaccine that's at least 2yrs out before a sizeable population can be vaccinated. What are people in the tourism business suppose to do? Hoping that our continuous "extension" would suddenly end one day and Americans rush back to visit Canada?

Social distancing in restaurants: social distancing works when the contact between person are expected to be short and in a relatively open environment and ideally WITH protective gears. How long do one usually take at a restaurant for a meal? Would they be using any protective gears? So, the effectiveness of such policy is already questionable in the first place. Now the cost... at a reduced capacity, would the rent of the restaurant suddenly drop by the same amount? Nop. If we had policy such as rent subsidy in place, why not block it out completely and make it delivery/take-out only? Oh... again, it's a question of cost to the business.

What I want to argue is that I am not seeing our gov't, provincial or federal, taking account of everything before making policy decisions.

We keep on doing something that has a minimum resistance with lil to none statistic to back them up. And the numbers show that we aren't really doing much better than our neighbor, the US, who so many of here despise about what they are doing about Covid.

So the question is, what are they (not the US, but any jurisdiction/countries in the world who had any success on suppressing the virus) right? And what are we doing? Maybe it's time for some changes. Because if you look at the curve... we were able to suppress it back in March/April because of a quasi-lockdown... do we want to go back again? What if once it drops, we open up and it goes back up again? Do we just continue to lock down?

Again... not arguing the effectiveness of any policy in particular... I'm just proposing to revisit what we are doing, lay out the pros (effect) and cons (cost) and those policies and find one that best suit us.

And from what I am seeing, the only path back to a "normal", albeit a controlled one, is to really track down all the sources when they come up and keep a lid on them. Trying to cover all potential points to leak without focusing on finding the holes, you'd just keep on getting wet.

[RRxtar]

Originally Posted by 68style

Vancouver Coastal Health this weekend: 109
Fraser Valley Health: 665

It’s all the fuckin rednecks and anti-mask people (and, I hate to say it, all the giant weddings happening illegally at farms in Abbotsford) fucking this up

817 new cases in BC
31 from the Interior Health region.
2,325 active cases in BC
86 active cases in within the IH region

Interior health region is 20% of the province population. 3% of cases. And that's been steady since the spring even with the well publicized "outbreak" in July (because of people from Vancouver here for the long weekend).

And we are still maybe 30% mask compliance.

Tell me again about rednecks and anti mask people

[welfare]

Originally Posted by 68style

Vancouver Coastal Health this weekend: 109
Fraser Valley Health: 665

It’s all the fuckin rednecks and anti-mask people (and, I hate to say it, all the giant weddings happening illegally at farms in Abbotsford) fucking this up

Mostly from Surrey and Abbotsford
https://www.abbynews.com/news/covid-...y-surrey-area/

[68style]

Originally Posted by RRxtar

817 new cases in BC
31 from the Interior Health region.
2,325 active cases in BC
86 active cases in within the IH region

Interior health region is 20% of the province population. 3% of cases. And that's been steady since the spring even with the well publicized "outbreak" in July (because of people from Vancouver here for the long weekend).

And we are still maybe 30% mask compliance.

Tell me again about rednecks and anti mask people

I was talking about Abby / Langley / Surrey bro...

Kelowna wasn’t in the Fraser health authority last time I checked

You guys don’t have enough density for it to be a problem

[Hehe]

Erh, you aren't getting the point. RRxtar is referring to their mask usage and their respective case.

Just because they are rednecks/anti-mask has no direct correlation with cases.

[68style]

Yah it does, there's not much call for mask wearing when everyone is spread out. No density in the interior.

Surrey / Langley / Abbotsford are all pretty dense in comparison and no masks in sight anywhere you go... and that's where all the cases are. Not exactly rocket science here.

[CivicBlues]

Is it really rednecks tho? I mean Bonnie Henry was seriously dancing around the point of who was responsible when she mentioned multi-generational households that were holding multi-day weddings and gatherings. It doesn't take a genius to guess who she's talking about.

[Hondaracer]

I could drive to at least 3 different locations right now I know for a fact are setting up for Indian weddings/parties in Burnaby/Vancouver. I’ve seen them setting up the last few days.

They’ve also attributed cases to religious gatherings and funerals, both of which “rednecks” don’t really flock to.

The multi-generational house hold thing though is obviously crazy for spreading. My buddy works in health and safety for a large company and he had one employee have someone in their household test positive so he tried to get the details. Turns out it was this persons spouse’s sister who tested positive, now it was the spouses, sisters, Brother taking care of this person. All of a sudden the parents on either side test positive and so does the brother..what can my buddy do other than say you can’t come to work until your entire house is clear. Kind of a problem when you’re living in a place with 15-20 ppl..

[JDMDreams]

^^ I hate to say it but I've noticed a trend where ppl who chose to wear religious coverings not wear face mask more than wear. Just an observation I've witnessed in public.

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

I could drive to at least 3 different locations right now I know for a fact are setting up for Indian weddings/parties in Burnaby/Vancouver. I’ve seen them setting up the last few days.

Call public health. BH has given you the go-ahead to snitch

[Hondaracer]

It’s not like there’s any attempt to hide it.

Typical Vancouver lots with the white tents stretching over every inch between the house and curb etc. That’s good, literally creating enclosed spaces..

[68style]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

Is it really rednecks tho? I mean Bonnie Henry was seriously dancing around the point of who was responsible when she mentioned multi-generational households that were holding multi-day weddings and gatherings. It doesn't take a genius to guess who she's talking about.

I am aware of that too from friends who are Indo-Canadian mentioning it... but yah for example even in Richmond. Superstore? All Asian people and everyone is in masks etc. Go to Ironwood to Save-on Foods? All old white people and nary a mask in sight.

I spent some time out in Langley and Aldergrove for work recently and Abbotsford to look at a car for sale and I was the only person I saw for an entire day with a mask on. Except for Nordstrom Rack cuz they force you to put one on.

[320icar]

Originally Posted by 68style

When does Hehe’s instruction manual for success in all facets of life come out? He’s got literally everything figured out. Does he have a podcast? Is it available on iTunes? How many followers does he have?

Yeah already out, it’s called infowars. He’s so smart because of all the nutraceutical’s he takes

[Alpine]

Here are the flu reports for BC & Canada:
http://www.bccdc.ca/resource-gallery...ct_15_2020.pdf

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...r-17-2020.html