coronavirus discussion

[chinook79]

Originally Posted by Hehe

We don't need to think outside the box. We need to follow good examples.

List all the countries that have had real success containing the virus, and see how we can adapt their measures.

Let's just talk about Taiwan because I know there the best and I think we can definitely take some of their stuff and adapt to fit our culture/regulations.

Track&trace:
This is the core component of TW's strategy. Of course our privacy laws are vastly different. China is even worse on that, but this is one of their core strategies as it gives a flying fuck about privacy.

But it can be a very simple app. Anyone can register with their phone number, it will keep track of your whereabouts on the phone but anonymous to the server as registration process record no names, just a phone number. You can even go another step to encrypt those numbers so that only the system knows the actual numbers making it impossible to access those data except the system. Anyone who wants to go into any public place like a resto/gym... or any private property that opens to public, (owner/operators of these entities can choose to require that as safety measure), you scan to check-in to verify that you have not been in close proximity of the virus.

When a case is identified, the tracing of that person is compared to everyone in the database, and notify affected "numbers" so these people can stay low for a while. (they will be unable to go into business that requires them). When one's yellow/red-flagged, they can either stay low or go into a testing facility to have them green-lighted again following a test.

Anyway, I might be talking shit as I'm no privacy law expert. However, the idea is to create a way for people to go on with their normal business WITH a catch to deal with this fucking virus. And one can choose to either participate or just do everything online with no activity that involves gathering in places with others.

Contact tracing is only effective when the community spread is minimal. We are way beyond that. Yes it would slow it down a little, but the benefit would be minimal at best at this point of pandemic.
With that being said, on a note on privacy issue, speaking from personal experience dealing with government policy related to privacy (I deal with PIA, privacy Impact Assessment often for work), no one at the government will want to sign off anything related to privacy issue.

Yet to this day, there are people still protesting on masks. Just freaking make mask mandatory on all indoor activity and enforce it hard. How much more evidence do we really need to prove masks reduces spread?? All countries effectively fending off wide spread were early adopters of mask policy. Heck forget other countries comparison, just take a look at the difference in spread in Richmond versus Tri-city

[BIC_BAWS]

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/mobile/new-b-c...home-1.5182957

Here's some clarification on the new orders

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by chinook79

Contact tracing is only effective when the community spread is minimal. We are way beyond that. Yes it would slow it down a little, but the benefit would be minimal at best at this point of pandemic.
With that being said, on a note on privacy issue, speaking from personal experience dealing with government policy related to privacy (I deal with PIA, privacy Impact Assessment often for work), no one at the government will want to sign off anything related to privacy issue.

Yet to this day, there are people still protesting on masks. Just freaking make mask mandatory on all indoor activity and enforce it hard. How much more evidence do we really need to prove masks reduces spread?? All countries effectively fending off wide spread were early adopters of mask policy. Heck forget other countries comparison, just take a look at the difference in spread in Richmond versus Tri-city

It's not about containing the virus with track&tracing... it's to setup a system to properly account the flow of people given any specific place/business. It's about how business can go back to normal.

By not adopting a similar system, no high risk businesses (bars, gyms... etc) can effectively minimize risks. Whatever PPE and social distancing measures they put in place makes no sense. Think taking your kids to soccer practice. You wear masks and keep distance with other parents, but the kids are all still playing together on the field. One kid has Covid, the chances of the rest of kids and their families increase exponentially.

Our gov't can't expect private businesses/entities to come up with their own methods to keep track. They should implement a central, one-for-all system. So that regular citizens have a system to rely on.

My friend owns a personal training company and the business has been hit hard. They had been shut down again... and even before that, it was operating at ~50% as before the pandemic. After the re-shutdown last week, my friend is just considering to shut the whole operation until everything is back to control. The business cannot operate when they dunno when the next shut-down will take place.

If a system was in place, the company can keep operating... as long as they keep control of its clients and make sure they are all low-risk people.

Again, as I said at the end in my previous post, it's not about using the T&T to contain the virus anymore... but rather paving a way for people and business to keep track of flow and therefore provide a way for them to safely carrying out their usual business.

[chinook79]

it's not the effective system that's an issue, it's bureaucracy surrounding approving the system that's not going to happen in this decade, not in Canada. I once designed a system that will dramatically increase efficiency on a business. Took 3 months of "volunteer overtime" and dedication to the project to complete it. Unfortunately, to go live with it, they basically want full documentations worth twice required work hour to complete than to design and develop, plus couple of years in wait time while all levels of government signs it off. If I were to put 4 in scale 1 to 10 in difficulties coming up with flawless system, I would rate it 20 for going through hoops and loops through bureaucracy and documentations. Pandemic or not, no matter urgency, no one in Canadian government system will want to sign off a system in fear of backfire down the road if there's slightest flaws in the system. No matter how much it makes sense, status quo is good for government jobs, not changes.

[twitchyzero]

shout out to the restaurants doing their part

1. speaker pointing out the door calling order numbers

2. dumping the bill trays into a bucket of soapy water

i'm on your side should the govt targets you guys unfairly (doing what i can tipping take outs at the local mom pops)

[68style]

Yes I think in general, restaurants are the leaders in how to run things properly... I see most other places cutting corners a lot, but most food places I have been around are trying their best and it can't be easy with varying "quality" levels in regards to staff.

[SkinnyPupp]

Here's a weird one. There's an outbreak of common cold/flu going around Hong Kong kindergartens. This is with a lot of anti-covid measures in place (as much as you can with kids anyway). It's so bad that they are shutting down these schools again for 2 weeks, in case it does turn into a covid outbreak.

[Hondaracer]

Skinny with the weekly Chinese puppet state update

[JDMDreams]

^ at least the Chinese is doing a better job at coronas, unlike the No fACE mASK mY FaCe My FrEedOM

[Hondaracer]

There’s so much irony in people begging to be like HK and Taiwan with their covid response and then mocking people in N/A for exercising their “freedom” albeit mostly in ignorant ways.

Places where you don’t even have the freedom to THINK in certain ways..lulz

By the sounds of it some of you guys should be booking your 1 way ticket to these puppet states as soon as things get back to normal.

[westopher]

It’s pretty easy to keep the conspiracy theorists quiet when you block FB and YouTube. Our issue is stupidity, but unfortunately that stupidity is deeply rooted in the freedom to consume the news you want from the sources you want, which when done improperly creates an absolute fucking idiot.

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

There’s so much irony in people begging to be like HK and Taiwan with their covid response and then mocking people in N/A for exercising their “freedom” albeit mostly in ignorant ways.

Places where you don’t even have the freedom to THINK in certain ways..lulz

By the sounds of it some of you guys should be booking your 1 way ticket to these puppet states as soon as things get back to normal.

I...I don't think you know what puppet state means.

[Hondaracer]

Give it 10 years

[CivicBlues]

uhh ok

How does any of that have any bearing on how the virus is being handled today?

Also, are Australia, NZ also puppet states where no freedom of thought is tolerated? Wait a sec...freedom of thought? did we jump ahead to Minority Report tech already?

[GGnoRE]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

There’s so much irony in people begging to be like HK and Taiwan with their covid response and then mocking people in N/A for exercising their “freedom” albeit mostly in ignorant ways.

Places where you don’t even have the freedom to THINK in certain ways..lulz

By the sounds of it some of you guys should be booking your 1 way ticket to these puppet states as soon as things get back to normal.

I'm damn proud to be a Canadian myself but we as western countries got to learn big time from Asian countries when it comes to covid response. My friends in Taiwan and South Korea are, and have been for a while, enjoying 90% of their normal life while we are holed up in our houses hoarding tp and wondering if its safe to see our parents or friends. Having "freedom" and being able to contain the virus effectively is not mutually exclusive.

[Hondaracer]

The pokes at communist take overs aside, the cultural differences are obviously huge barrier to overcome which I think almost outweighs the “freedom” part

Ie. in Japan you look like the biggest asshole if you’re not wearing a mask where as here I was just in Safeway and there are a bunch of people not wearing masks, talking to one another, etc. It’s not that they are into dat FrEeDoM! But there’s no social accountability in western society.

People don’t need the govt. to tell them things when public pressure forces you to do the right thing

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

The pokes at communist take overs aside, the cultural differences are obviously huge barrier to overcome which I think almost outweighs the “freedom” part

Ie. in Japan you look like the biggest asshole if you’re not wearing a mask where as here I was just in Safeway and there are a bunch of people not wearing masks, talking to one another, etc. It’s not that they are into dat FrEeDoM! But there’s no social accountability in western society.

People don’t need the govt. to tell them things when public pressure forces you to do the right thing

And Taiwan and Hong Kong as well. With "puppet state" you seem to think that means the people are puppets and the govt is in control. That's not what it means. Taiwan is no puppet state lol

No argument here calling HK a puppet state though, but that's because their govt is a puppet for another govt.

The people are individuals though, not puppets, and have been doing the right thing since day 1 - often going AGAINST govt guidelines (they said no masks at the start), and FORCING the govt to close borders (they wouldn't close the border until hospital workers went on strike)

For some reason there is a large idea of being a controversialist in Canada and even moreso in America. Like people HAVE to go against what authorities are saying, even if it's not in their best interest. I like individualism, but this is just weird. People literally make up facts to support being able to do the wrong thing. It breaks my mind.

[Hondaracer]

People don’t like being told what to do, period. Right or wrong I think that’s what it comes down to.

The states is frankly a lost cause and unfortunately Canada seems to have people who grasp onto the same straws idiots in the states do. Our only saving grace is that we have a smaller population. However, that doesn’t seem to matter when it comes to a small few ruining it for the rest of us

[JDMDreams]

^^ let's keep having those weddings, a lock down is coming, just look at Ontario, Manitoba, Alberta. Every province is announcing something. Ontario is projected to have 3000 to 6000 cases a day by mid December. Canmurica here we come.

[SumAznGuy]

1130 new cases over the last 2 days, yesterday was 594. Oh so close to topping 600.

[Hondaracer]

https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/11...ian-community/

“It’s not in any way to blame the community,” she told a group of South Asian reporters during a teleconference this week. “But now we need to take measures to protect the community because it is transmitted in the South Asian community more so than we are seeing in other people right now.”

Frankly it’s this type of language and the PC cultured associated that makes her messaging so ineffective.

So sorry, people who have been knowingly breaking the rules in private ARENT to blame? Ok

[JDMDreams]

I guess that's one way for them to control their population

[JDMDreams]

Projections shows it will take 13 days to double the amount of cases. So 1000+ a day in bc by the end of the month.

[pastarocket]

Dr. Bonnie has to deal with some pretty stupid questions from people about the workplace.

She mentioned during today's Covid update that an employer asked her "Can I have an in person staff meeting of 12 people inside a room?".

Her two part answer was "Yes, if each person in that meeting can maintain a minimum of 6 feet of distance between every person in that meeting".

"The bigger question is why do you need 12 people to attend an in person meeting?"

Do employers not use Zoom, MS Teams, or other technical solutions for video conference calls??

Dr. Bonnie said that she is really surprised that an employer asked her this question at this time.

[JDMDreams]

^^ we tried to have a 6 person webex meeting at work, basically our images crap out and you only see a grey screen