coronavirus discussion

[Obsideon]

Originally Posted by welfare

But it's not going to be done with after a month. There's no reason why it wouldn't just come back once things open up again

Start with that at least and see how it goes. For sure it beats the hell out of this wishy-washy shit that hasn't worked all year and clearly will not work going forward.
Bonnie is just starting to sound like a nagging nanny at this point ... "children please put your dishes in the sink, kids please wash your hands, please don't share popsicles at recess, please don't stick your finger in Billy's ear".
As mentioned before by numerous people on here, the people following the rules ALREADY are and nothings changed, and the people that are NOT following will continue to do so no matter how many times Bonnie 'suggests' we follow the her recommendations.

Even a small sample size of our restaurant, ever since the new regulations from last Saturday, nothing has changed. I can still clearly tell there are groups of people not from the same household (group of 6 men in their 50's), but there's no way any restaurant can (or wants to) enforce it.

[RiceIntegraRS]

Originally Posted by Obsideon

I'm probably gonna get fails but if given the choice I for one would vote to bring the hammer down hard and get it over with.
What's 1 month of complete total lockdown (EVERYTHING shutdown), need permit to leave the house, etc) compared to this current situation of dragging this on for 10 months and counting? ...
I had a discussion with a friend (over the phone of course lolz) and the best example is... would you rather take 1 hard swift kick in the nuts and be done with it or would you prefer to take a punch to the gut every month for the rest of the year?

Lock everything down already. Im getting sick and tired of doing my part to help flatten the curve for what? 9 months now? while theres a portion of the population not giving a fuck. Im getting to the point where it doesnt matter what i do, the country is doomed with the wishy washy leadership and this super laxed enforcement.

[twitchyzero]

11 deaths/day now
lock it down

[Hondaracer]

Well if people don’t listen to the no mixed house holds messages, are they going to listen to a curfew message?

I’ve literally heard the reasoning for not adhering to the staying within your own household argument because “you can’t get fined”

Are the people who need the severe messaging even going to be receiving it? Who is going to enforce it?

Frankly over time I think that even regular people who have been following the rules will eventually start saying fuck it and getting together with friends etc. Because even people with few friends etc will get tired of this. I know I am

I get it that doing SOMTHING is better than the current state but I’m not sure how effective it will be

[Obsideon]

Monetary fines will work.
Do you think Vancouver will be fine if they suddenly changed the stance to "Please try and refrain from speeding as we feel it could be dangerous, Stop signs are just a suggestion. Try not to use your phone while driving, Seatbelts are recommended"

[Teriyaki]

Originally Posted by welfare

But it's not going to be done with after a month. There's no reason why it wouldn't just come back once things open up again

Yes it'll likely come back, but you'll be starting with a much much lower case load so it's tracable and managable, maybe even could be fully isolated so it's no longer out in the wild. It's like a circuit breaker, or like a c-c-c-c-combo breaker for those that dwell on the internet a little too much. You can handle a light jab or kick, but when you're spinning in the air with your pants down after getting shit kicked in the face with 6 hadokets, you want the combo to stop. Exponential growth is a combo multiplier against us.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by Obsideon

Monetary fines will work.
Do you think Vancouver will be fine if they suddenly changed the stance to "Please try and refrain from speeding as we feel it could be dangerous, Stop signs are just a suggestion. Try not to use your phone while driving, Seatbelts are recommended"

Is this type of thing even possible?

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

I get it that doing SOMTHING is better than the current state but I’m not sure how effective it will be

More than just that. Canada needs to do more about forcing people returning from other countries to quarantine. They need to close the loop hole that families can go to Peace Arch Park and have tent sex with their significant others or force them to quarantine for 14 days.

Then we can talk about shutting everything down ACROSS CANADA.
No point in shutting things down in BC and then have someone with the virus come over another province. The maritime provinces and territories up north are only getting cases because of travel and a prime example we need Justin Timberlake to do more.

Just saw on the news, a home owner has been fine $2300 for hosting a poker game in his garage and had other non family guest in his house. This was the second time. First time they were given a warning.

[twitchyzero]

horgan speaking tomorrow morning

Twitter

hammer time?

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

IMO it's dystopian in that it will create a huge divide in society - vaccinated vs unvaccinated. Add to that the fact that this division will be traceable via something like an ID card, or more likely a phone app, makes it also look like something you'd see in dystopian sci-fi.

Picture the scenario someone pointed out above, the idea being totally reasonable to have to scan your phone or show a card to be allowed to go to into a restaurant or to see a movie.

It's a logical solution, and like I said a lot of people are going to accept it. And it's not something like a social credit score or anything like that. But it's still eerily similar to what you think of when you consider a dystopian future. Also what if some people can't get access to a vaccine for whatever reason? Maybe there will be issues where some vaccines are better than others, or some make certain people sick? We don't know anything yet. And Canadians will be covered, but what about countries where people would have to pay for the vaccine themselves? In that case, there will be many who can't afford it.

Also, once the tracing and splitting up and tracing society starts, do you think it will stop there? Or will society move towards tracing more things? Things like this usually only go in one direction.

Anyone who wants a vaccine should get one within a set period of time (say 2-years). If you can't, you can apply for an exemption card (these exist for the Yellow Fever vaccine) from your doctor. If you're just being a difficult anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorist, then you're forced to wear a mask. Or your ass is out the door. Simple as that.

No chips, no QR codes, no RFID, no tracking. A simple piece of paper with your name on it signed and notarized by a medical authority. Will some idiots try to forge one? Sure, but most decent people won't and get the shot.

We do this until the baseline of infections drop to negligible/manageable levels.

How is this much different than what all you people clamoring for a "mask mandate"?

[MG1]

Originally Posted by SumAznGuy

More than just that. Canada needs to do more about forcing people returning from other countries to quarantine.

Speaking of which, what ever happened to the OP?

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

Anyone who wants a vaccine should get one within a set period of time (say 2-years). If you can't, you can apply for an exemption card (these exist for the Yellow Fever vaccine) from your doctor. If you're just being a difficult anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorist, then you're forced to wear a mask. Or your ass is out the door. Simple as that.

No chips, no QR codes, no RFID, no tracking. A simple piece of paper with your name on it signed and notarized by a medical authority. Will some idiots try to forge one? Sure, but most decent people won't and get the shot.

We do this until the baseline of infections drop to negligible/manageable levels.

How is this much different than what all you people clamoring for a "mask mandate"?

It's not much different, that's kind of the point. This whole year has been a gigantic leap into dystopia. And now we're talking about tracking and ostracizing people who don't join in on that leap.

(Also not arguing whether being anti mask or anti vaccine is right or wrong here, that's beside the point)

[1337]

Originally Posted by EndLeSS8

This is the first I've heard that she gets too much credit. She's able to keep a sound mind, level head, and able to share the facts to the general public, without being overtly scientific, while still being compassionate.

There is a reason why not every doctor can just go out there and speak with the media; there is media training for every level of professionals, and media training in healthcare is no different. You have to have a proper balance of facts (that is backed up by science), being able to express in a way that people listen, and be calm and respectful to the public.

I don't listen to Trump talk much, but last week I listened to a speech of his. Then I listened to Dr. Henry and Adrian Dix speak. Night and Day difference.

East Asian influence, I'm gonna say straight up, is bullshit. I'm Chinese, lived in Vancouver all my life, born and raised. East Asian influence doesn't have anything to do with following the rules - to be blunt, take a look at any/all the Mainlanders who don't follow the rules in Canada. The only Asian culture that I can say that has a "we" more than "I" mentality, is Japanese culture. Chinese people are straight up selfish. Following the rules isn't from being East Asian, it's from general Canadian values of compassion, kindness, helping each other out, and not being a dick.

Curious as to what your thoughts are now that this was 6.months ago?

[twitchyzero]

sry too busy painting public mural of dr henry

[twitchyzero]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

A simple piece of paper with your name on it signed and notarized by a medical authority. Will some idiots try to forge one? Sure, but most decent people won't and get the shot.

We do this until the baseline of infections drop to negligible/manageable levels.

How is this much different than what all you people clamoring for a "mask mandate"?

mask mandate is not unlike 'no shirt/shoes, no service'

but discrimination against health status is a whole another touchy subject (ie the stigma around aids/hiv, mental illness etc)

and let's say the vaccine paper admission is employed: it's still not sure fire. Why not go one step further and have proof of antibody titers every 3mos?

[StylinRed]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Is this type of thing even possible?

It was possible in Australia, heavy fines,and even jail time, people still flouted the rules here n there, but almost everybody fell in line, especially after examples were made, and now Victoria (state) is in the clear

There's an outbreak in the state of South Australia now and they're locking down the outbreak is just 14 ppl in size

[spoon.ek9]

I just wanted to add, if this were truly a dystopia, what you would see is the government rounding up every single person in the country and forcefully giving them the vaccine despite any objections whether just or unjust. That's clearly not what's going to happen here.

Should you choose to abstain, then you face some very logical, reasonable and understandable consequences. These may include not being able to go to school, not being able to travel, not being able to join leagues, etc. It isn't about ostracizing people, these are businesses and societal functions protecting themselves from harm for the greater good. It's especially important for businesses because the #1 priority is for customers to feel safe again in their establishments and the ability to operate at full capacity.

With that being said, I have faith that the vast majority of our society is smart enough to trust the science and take the vaccine. Everyone wants things to go back to normal ASAP; literally everyone. We can't cater to the extreme minority that will be against the vaccine for whatever reason. As mentioned by others, they'll have to continue to wear masks/face shields and face the consequences for their choice until things are deemed under control.

[welfare]

Well, myself personally, i doubt I'd take it. And not because of some Orwellian theory about microchips.
I just can't trust a vaccine developed in this short a period. Sorry.

[spoon.ek9]

and that's your choice, which is how a free country operates. now, I hope you will take the time to at least read the study and understand the process as to why it would be safe (assuming no hiccups from now until roll out). when it comes to vaccines, the data either supports it or it doesn't. there's no in between. if they are indeed 90-95% effective than i cannot see a legitimate reason to abstain but again, that's your choice.

[Hondaracer]

There is not going to be no data whether it is safe long term or not. No one that takes it will know the long term effects if any

[westopher]

Yet people who give that as a reason to abstain from the vaccine, don't have that same fear of THE VIRUS ITSELF.
The mindset of if you don't die, everything is just fine again, which clearly hasn't been the case.

[Hondaracer]

If we put aside the “long term health effects” which are mostly unknown at this point, it could be very serious, it could be very minimal long term, the data here kinda shows that if you’re under 50, you don’t have much to worry about, this data is as of Nov 17th.







Of the 310 deaths in BC, 237 (85%) have been over 70

The largest percentile group of deaths (40%+) comes in the 80-89 age, which is actually older than the average live expectancy in BC (79.5 years)

If you add in the 60-69 crowd, you have 94% of the deaths.

No one under 39 has died, which makes up almost 50% of the province (47%)

These numbers are obviously not reported directly through the media for a reason.

This doesn’t take away from the strain on the healthcare sustem and all the other things we’ve discussed at naseum.

Also, the age groups which test positive the most also have the least deaths and least ICU admissions.

[RRxtar]

Like was said before. It's funny the people who will be the first in line for a vaccine disregarding any long term risks but are also the ones full of fear about the unknown possible long term effects of being one of the few people who actually get covid symptoms

[twitchyzero]

is the vaccine radically different than the influenza one though?

that should give you an indication of the possible undesirable effects

[StylinRed]

That's old data tho we've had ppl under 39 die, but yes, I see your point

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

is the vaccine radically different than the influenza one though?

that should give you an indication of the possible undesirable effects

The covid vaccines will be the first ever to be made using mRNA, so who knows what's in store long term

And we do have those two incidences of transverse myelitis from astrazenecas vaccine, one case of which was dismissed cuz the test subject had undiagnosed MS not sure of the other

Edit: also Russia's vaccine that was approved back in August has a 92% efficacy

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54905330

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-54982910

We could've had covid taken care of for months now, but the west decided holding out for NA companies to profit over Russia was worth ppl dying