coronavirus discussion

[StylinRed]

Originally Posted by 320icar

You know 99% of societys working force DOESNT get a total of 3 months off a year, right?

We're the second worst out of 21 oecd countries

[ilovebacon]

The United States, zero.... If you've asked me, I wouldn't have expected that from a first world country.

[Special K]

Originally Posted by 6793026

Churches are going to be shut down tmw. No religious events even if it's below 50.

2 issues with school

1) BC educational laws states

(a) 848 hours of instruction for students in kindergarten;
(b) 873 hours of instruction for students in grades 1 to 7;
(c) 947 hours of instruction for students in grades 8 to 12.

2) blah blah blah... board must, as soon as practicable and, in any event, within 30 days of amending a school calendar under section 87.02 of the Act, provide the minister with the amended school calendar.

So if we shut down TODAY Nov 18 all the way say.. January. How will students make up for lost hours? And virtually?

1) how do you make up metal work, wood work, PE classes, lab work (which also has min. mandates)

2) IF teens MISS OVER 3 months of school, will teachers be obligated to SKIP summer vacations to work?

ARE YOU telling me, you are OK to work JULY and AUGUST as a teacher to make up for class time when you have been off for 30+ yrs as a teacher during summer holidays?

The Govt created these laws and they also have the power to amend them.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by ilovebacon

The United States, zero.... If you've asked me, I wouldn't have expected that from a first world country.

But think of the economy! Theirs is the best! GDP! Stock market!

[quasi]

Originally Posted by 6793026

Churches are going to be shut down tmw. No religious events even if it's below 50.

2 issues with school

1) BC educational laws states

(a) 848 hours of instruction for students in kindergarten;
(b) 873 hours of instruction for students in grades 1 to 7;
(c) 947 hours of instruction for students in grades 8 to 12.

2) blah blah blah... board must, as soon as practicable and, in any event, within 30 days of amending a school calendar under section 87.02 of the Act, provide the minister with the amended school calendar.

So if we shut down TODAY Nov 18 all the way say.. January. How will students make up for lost hours? And virtually?

1) how do you make up metal work, wood work, PE classes, lab work (which also has min. mandates)

2) IF teens MISS OVER 3 months of school, will teachers be obligated to SKIP summer vacations to work?

ARE YOU telling me, you are OK to work JULY and AUGUST as a teacher to make up for class time when you have been off for 30+ yrs as a teacher during summer holidays?

I'm playing devils advocate here but if schools are closed earlier for an extended break and they aren't teaching wouldn't that count as time off just earlier than the summer? That's really no different then everyone else in the workforce not being able to take holidays when they wanted.

For example my wife works for the BC Govt. she can't take holidays around Christmas because so many of her co-workers have small kids and time off at the same time. I can never take holidays in August because my co-workers take their holidays every year in August and have done so for that last 15 years. I could actually go further than that, due to covid when it kicked off in March my wife had to work 37 days straight without a day off, most days she wasn't working an 8 hour day either 10-11 Hours it sucks but Covid has thrown a lot of wrenches in a lot of peoples schedules.

I don't really see it being that different. The PE and the shop classes are a problem for sure, not exactly sure how you make those up online if that's the only option.

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by StylinRed

We're the second worst out of 21 oecd countries

This chart doesn't really make sense. US has no holidays? I get they have no vacation time mandated but Christmas, Thanksgiving, New Years, etc.

Same with UK - 0 Bank Holidays?

Also Canada/Australia it varies by Province/State. Last I checked BC has 10 Stat Holidays plus 2 traditionally taken in conjunction (Easter Monday/Boxing Day

[underscore]

Originally Posted by 320icar

You know 99% of societys working force DOESNT get a total of 3 months off a year, right?

Plenty of jobs are seasonal. Farm work, ski hills, landscaping, etc. Teaching really isn't any different.

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Overdose deaths in the states were almost 70,000 in 2019

Honestly, like 240,000 deaths ain’t great but given the Americans attitude and a once in a 100 year pandemic? Seems like it could be worse

Was talking to the wife last night about the pandemic and she reminded me of AIDS in the late 80's and early 90's.

It's funny how no one called that pandemic a hoax and people started taking that virus seriously to the point you don't hear much about that virus today.

[6793026]

Originally Posted by quasi

I'm playing devils advocate here but if schools are closed earlier for an extended break and they aren't teaching wouldn't that count as time off just earlier than the summer? That's really no different then everyone else in the workforce not being able to take holidays when they wanted.

The other way around, if students missed school, these 100 hours are missed, it HAS to be made up. How so is the question. Extension on days? Tag on during summer? Shorten during spring break? I'm having a hard time seeing how they play this out.

Work is goal / project focused within 8 hrs. School is mandatory sit in per block, and classes are equally or else you can't graduate.

Work projects gets extensions / you can do overtime at home. One can't teach a kid at 6 PM at night or start at 7 AM.

Someone mentioned to amend the changes... good luck with that too. Education minister could say "due to covid, we approve 200 less hrs required for teens to grad"
You then have advisors "the standards of hours are set for a reason...blah blah blah"

Do you want doctors 10 yrs from now who didn't grad properly in high school then got into med school with inadequately training and standards.

Wonder what the ripple effects is going to be? War resulted baby boomer & women in labor force.
covid = school training suffering... students standards falling.

covid did help move forward online shopping for users & online orders adaptation for companies etc.

[StylinRed]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

This chart doesn't really make sense. US has no holidays? I get they have no vacation time mandated but Christmas, Thanksgiving, New Years, etc.

Same with UK - 0 Bank Holidays?

Also Canada/Australia it varies by Province/State. Last I checked BC has 10 Stat Holidays plus 2 traditionally taken in conjunction (Easter Monday/Boxing Day

It's talking about federal mandated vacation days, I just did a quick Google, this is where I got the figure from

https://pressprogress.ca/canadian-wo...ialized-world/

[inv4zn]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

This chart doesn't really make sense. US has no holidays? I get they have no vacation time mandated but Christmas, Thanksgiving, New Years, etc.

Same with UK - 0 Bank Holidays?

Also Canada/Australia it varies by Province/State. Last I checked BC has 10 Stat Holidays plus 2 traditionally taken in conjunction (Easter Monday/Boxing Day

In the US the employer has no legal obligation to pay you if you don't work, even on stat holidays/vacation. Most will choose to, but it's not required. Hence the 0.

[320icar]

Originally Posted by underscore

Plenty of jobs are seasonal. Farm work, ski hills, landscaping, etc. Teaching really isn't any different.

I guess I didn’t consider teaching a seasonal job, since the others you listed are minimum wage (or less), no education needed and usually done by temporary resident staff that are here on work visa’s. Couldn’t be more different than a Canadian teacher.

I barely get to choose my vacation. I never get it in the summer. December is a blackout period. I’ve got 5 weeks sitting there this year, each time I’ve put it it’s gotten denied. I’m on 2 weeks holiday now because of the new lockdown and only because I used my baby as an excuse

[westopher]

Fishermen is a good example. Geologists up north as well. Hard working, skilled jobs that have months off and enough pay to get through that time. Also, realistically teachers probably work as many hours in those 9 months as other public salaried employees work in 11.

[twitchyzero]

i'd hardly classify the 11 month teacher training as education

kidding i'm just jealous and believe most professional progams can be condensed instead of having 3 month summers

1000x wish i did more shop classes growing up

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by 320icar

I guess I didn’t consider teaching a seasonal job, since the others you listed are minimum wage (or less), no education needed and usually done by temporary resident staff that are here on work visa’s. Couldn’t be more different than a Canadian teacher.

I barely get to choose my vacation. I never get it in the summer. December is a blackout period. I’ve got 5 weeks sitting there this year, each time I’ve put it it’s gotten denied. I’m on 2 weeks holiday now because of the new lockdown and only because I used my baby as an excuse

Surprisingly farm work isn't all done by temp workers.
A lot of them are permanent residents.

[underscore]

Originally Posted by 320icar

I guess I didn’t consider teaching a seasonal job, since the others you listed are minimum wage (or less), no education needed and usually done by temporary resident staff that are here on work visa’s. Couldn’t be more different than a Canadian teacher.

There's more to running all of those businesses than just the bottom level labourers though.

[StylinRed]

In Europe rn

Hans Kluge, the WHO's Europe director, said the continent recorded more than 29,000 new Covid-19 deaths last week.

"That is one person dying every 17 seconds," he told a briefing on Thursday.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55008447

[quasi]

Originally Posted by 6793026

The other way around, if students missed school, these 100 hours are missed, it HAS to be made up. How so is the question. Extension on days? Tag on during summer? Shorten during spring break? I'm having a hard time seeing how they play this out.

Extend the school year, my point was if they shut down early for an extended break teachers aren't working during that time just extend it to summer you're not asking for them to work extra your just moving their holidays around.

That's the answer that makes the most sense I do agree there would be push back and it probably wouldn't happen. I mean it would happen in any other sector but teachers cry pretty loud and with an NDP Government their voice will be heard.

[whitev70r]

One hybrid solution is to cancel in person school and change everything to online. It's not as if elementary and high schoolers aren't on their devices >8 hrs a day anyhow. The majority of students should be able to complete the required hours for their year to graduate. Teachers work and teach in their pajamas, students get their education, AND teachers still get 2 months off in July and August.

What's the big deal here ... ??!! Sorry, not seeing it. Did you know that even before Covid, there is this option or format of learning/school for elementary and high school youths?

[Ch28]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

One hybrid solution is to cancel in person school and change everything to online. It's not as if elementary and high schoolers aren't on their devices >8 hrs a day anyhow. The majority of students should be able to complete the required hours for their year to graduate. Teachers work and teach in their pajamas, students get their education, AND teachers still get 2 months off in July and August.

What's the big deal here ... ??!! Sorry, not seeing it. Did you know that even before Covid, there is this option or format of learning/school for elementary and high school youths?

The issue with that level of teaching is that children's mental health will be adversely affected due to the lack of socializing.

[inv4zn]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

One hybrid solution is to cancel in person school and change everything to online. It's not as if elementary and high schoolers aren't on their devices >8 hrs a day anyhow. The majority of students should be able to complete the required hours for their year to graduate. Teachers work and teach in their pajamas, students get their education, AND teachers still get 2 months off in July and August.

What's the big deal here ... ??!! Sorry, not seeing it. Did you know that even before Covid, there is this option or format of learning/school for elementary and high school youths?

I understand this is a suggestion, but you're completely disregarding the social aspect of school.

I assume you've graduated highschool, just imagine if your senior years were done exclusively in front of a screen.

[Ch28]

Originally Posted by inv4zn

I understand this is a suggestion, but you're completely disregarding the social aspect of school.

I assume you've graduated highschool, just imagine if your senior years were done exclusively in front of a screen.

At least high school kids have had "regular" socializing up until COVID.

Imagine if you're still in elementary school and are naturally introverted. It's already hard enough to socialize and make friends at school on a regular basis, now imagine trying to do so without seeing them in person. I'd imagine that's going to definitely have some form of negative impact on them.

I'm all for BC putting out much stricter rules and enforcement but things aren't always so cut and dry.

[inv4zn]

Originally Posted by Ch28

I'm all for BC putting out much stricter rules and enforcement but things aren't always so cut and dry.

Yep - completely agree. It's easy for you and I and anyone to sit here and make claims or suggestions based off of our small subjective experiences, but the reality is every single situation is complex, evolving, and someone is always going to be upset.

Unrelated, these are the restrictions in MB as of tomorrow.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...tems-1.5808235

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

One hybrid solution is to cancel in person school and change everything to online. It's not as if elementary and high schoolers aren't on their devices >8 hrs a day anyhow. The majority of students should be able to complete the required hours for their year to graduate. Teachers work and teach in their pajamas, students get their education, AND teachers still get 2 months off in July and August.

What's the big deal here ... ??!! Sorry, not seeing it. Did you know that even before Covid, there is this option or format of learning/school for elementary and high school youths?

Another issue is not everyone has a laptop/ipad or wifi to learn online.
That was one of the key points before the start of the school year.
And the school board doesn't have the budget or resources to make sure everyone has a device or wifi.

[whitev70r]

Yes, I understand that there is mental health issues related to learning online. Maybe I should have clarified. I believe the original question was framed this way. What to do if school is cancelled and/or Christmas break starts early and stretches longer ... how do we complete the curriculum and what about teachers who get 2 months off in the summer (this is probably the least of concerns)?

My simple solution was, OK, if Covid situation got real bad, cancel in person school. Extend the Christmas holiday/break. Teach from now until Mid December Christmas break online. Complete as much of the curriculum as you can. I'm not advocating for school closure or not, that's beyond my pay scale.

All I'm saying is that school closure does not necessarily mean that teachers don't work and learning is halted.

Edit - maybe you have to have special provisions for students who do not have devices to attend in person school. What .. 10-20% at most?

2nd edit - right from the get go in September, they should have given the option of in person learning or online. There are families who prefer online for one reason or another, that would thin out the numbers for in person and may have answered the teachers' concern about class size. Hire every Tom, Dick, and Harry who graduated from teacher's college, instead of giving them $2000 CERB, get more hands on deck and have them be online teachers. Give families options.