coronavirus discussion

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by welfare

If you think there's been anywhere near a 99.9% consensus from experts regarding treatments for this virus, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I think you may be interested in.

Ya let's not trust the people the US government has hired because they are the best in their field. Just like we should not listen to you when it comes to car repairs but listen to the guy who works at jiffy lube. Combined Jiffy lube mechanics have 1000's of years of experience.

[underscore]

Originally Posted by welfare

That is the idea, yes. But there's no evidence that the vaccines thus far offer immunity.

From what I've been seeing contracting the virus doesn't offer immunity either. So what options do we have?

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

The average age of a covid related death is OLDER than the average age of death..

It's almost like the measures are working or something. This is what we're trying to avoid with all the things you're complaining about.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ents-1.5835846

Calgary doctors are facing distressing decisions, especially in intensive care units, as hospitals fill up with COVID-19 patients.

As of Wednesday, there were 202 COVID patients in Calgary hospitals, including 36 in intensive care, pushing the facilities beyond 100 per cent capacity.

Despite new measures announced Tuesday, hospitals in the city are preparing for a potential doubling of the COVID numbers in the next two weeks because a certain proportion of cases being identified now will end up very sick.

"We worry about the number of COVID patients and seeing a lot of people decline all at the same time and that knowing we can only look after so many," said Dr. Misty Watson, a hospitalist (family physician who looks after admitted patients, many of them elderly) at Rockyview General Hospital.

Watson watched as COVID-19 admissions gradually increased through the fall, followed by a rapid influx over the past few weeks.

"Where do we put these people? How do we look after them safely? Worrying about — is it going to get to a point where we have so many patients that it's not safe to look after the volume that they are. Are we going to have to call in more people?"

Calgary's adult hospitals are now swelling with patients.

According to Alberta Health Services (AHS), they had an average occupancy of 107 per cent as of Wednesday afternoon.

At noon on Thursday, AHS reported an occupancy rate of 99 per cent.

"And they're over-full, so we've moved into over-capacity spaces and we're backing up into the emergency department," said Watson.

"Every single day, we get notifications that the hospital is full and to do our best to try and safely discharge patients."

Deciding who gets potentially life-saving care

Beyond the stress of scrambling to free up beds and squeeze in new patients, there is another level of angst, unlike anything Watson has experienced before.

"We're at a place where some patients who normally would go to an intensive care unit now would no longer be appropriate," she said.

"That's distressing for physicians. And we know that in some cases this could have been avoided. And that's difficult to wrap our heads around."

Watson gives the example of older people — with serious underlying health problems — who may not be able to go to the ICU even though they want every measure taken to keep them alive.

"But we know that their chance of survival is much less than, for example, someone who is 30, 40 maybe 50 years old. So we're having to have conversations at the beginning of admissions that although they may want to go to the intensive care unit, it may not be an option. And those conversations are happening more frequently," she said.

"And that's not something that we're used to saying. I mean, we're used to being able to do everything we can."
Young, healthy people in ICU

On the intensive care unit at Calgary's Peter Lougheed Centre, Dr. Daniel Niven has seen a surge of very sick COVID-19 patients suffering from lung failure over the past week.

"I'm becoming increasingly concerned about the next couple of weeks," the ICU physician said. "The volume is increasing significantly."

AHS recently added 20 additional ICU beds to adult hospitals around the city. Niven says 20 more beds can be opened, in stages of 10 at a time, under the current surge capacity plans. And he expects the next wave of 10 will likely be necessary within a week.

While Niven hasn't faced scenarios where people who should go to the ICU can't, he is witnessing another startling phenomenon.

During the first wave in the spring, Niven treated mostly older patients with serious underlying health conditions, he says.

Now he's seeing people of all ages — from their 20s to 80s — many with well managed and fairly common conditions such as high blood pressure, diabetes and asthma. And some with no underlying health problems at all.

"These people are … working [and] looking after their own loved ones and then they're getting COVID. And they're ending up with us in the intensive care unit on a ventilator," he said.

"It's very scary to see the people that are getting infected with this and that are ending up on life support."

Niven warns the underlying health conditions can be very mild, perhaps requiring a trip to their family doctor once or twice a year for medication refills — not necessitating frequent specialist visits or high amounts of care.

"So I think that's something that's not perhaps as well enough known within the general public. This is not just a disease of older people with a number of medical problems. It's not that — that's for sure."

Niven suspects what he's seeing in the ICU is a reflection of just how widespread COVID-19 has become.

"Now that it's infecting a greater number of people within the population, I think we're seeing just, in fact, what it can do and what other jurisdictions have seen," he said.

"This notion of comorbidities is potentially providing a reassurance when it shouldn't.… It can really affect anybody. And it's really humbling to see it because you see these people that are otherwise the glue within their house, so to speak, and then they get taken down."

Try thinking more than 3 seconds ahead and take a stab at what the average age of death will be if there's effectively no ICU.

[welfare]

Originally Posted by underscore

From what I've been seeing contracting the virus doesn't offer immunity either. So what options do we have?

I'd imagine it would just end up becoming a part of life. Like every other virus/infectious disease we have no effective vaccine for.

[CRS]

Originally Posted by welfare

I'd imagine it would just end up becoming a part of life. Like every other virus/infectious disease we have no effective vaccine for.

Name me one other virus/infectious disease that has had the same impact that COVID-19 has had in our modern era.

[whitev70r]

A peace of mind?

Canada to implement its first national vaccine injury compensation program

TORONTO -- As part of Canada’s vaccine rollout, the federal government has announced that anyone who experiences a severe adverse reaction to a COVID-19 vaccine will be eligible for compensation — a first in Canada’s history.

The no-fault program was announced Thursday, as Canada gets ready to roll out the first of seven new vaccines.

“Serious side-effects are incredibly rare,” Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said in a press conference Thursday. “In the very unlikely event of an adverse reaction though, we want to make sure Canadians have fair access to support. So today, I can announce that we’re creating a federal support program around vaccine safety for all Canadians and for all vaccines. This includes COVID-19 vaccines that will be rolled out soon.”

[Hondaracer]

Peace of mind or a red flag? Lol

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by Zedbra

Last week CTV was reporting 80% of Covid deaths in Canada have occurred in LTC, with an average age of 84. The total was under 12k deaths at that time, leaving the remaining 2100 representing 0.005% of our population. Better get that pharma shot and hope you don't grow up.

Jesus Christ, so don't get the fucking vaccine then. Go about your life like usual and when you unknowingly spread it to the elderly and infirm people in your life don't come crying here. You're the one that needs to fucking grow up.

[StylinRed]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

A peace of mind?

Canada to implement its first national vaccine injury compensation program

TORONTO -- As part of Canada’s vaccine rollout, the federal government has announced that anyone who experiences a severe adverse reaction to a COVID-19 vaccine will be eligible for compensation — a first in Canada’s history.

The no-fault program was announced Thursday, as Canada gets ready to roll out the first of seven new vaccines.

“Serious side-effects are incredibly rare,” Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said in a press conference Thursday. “In the very unlikely event of an adverse reaction though, we want to make sure Canadians have fair access to support. So today, I can announce that we’re creating a federal support program around vaccine safety for all Canadians and for all vaccines. This includes COVID-19 vaccines that will be rolled out soon.”

ppl kept pressing the govt over if Pfizer would be held liable for any adverse reactions and the govt gave no response so ig we got this as a result

Quebec was the o ly province that had a system like this prior to covid




https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55273907

Oxford vaccine mixed with Sputnik vaccine to begin trials to see if they can attain better immune response

[westopher]

“Get rid of covid”
Here you need to lockdown to prevent the spread
“But the economy”
Please wear this mask and socially distance
“But my rights I can do what I want with my body and my property”
Here’s a vaccine
“Vaccine bad someone had a fever and if I get covid I might be asymptomatic”

It’s like some people don’t even want this to end so they can keep storming around talking about their freedoms being trampled on and have something to fucking blame the government for.

[StylinRed]

I think they think things can magically disappear without themselves having to lift a finger

[whitev70r]

If only someone can invent a time machine, go back a year, and incinerate those damn bats in Wuhan ...

[punkwax]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

If only someone can invent a time machine, go back a year, and incinerate those damn bats in Wuhan ...

The bats are innocent. The humans, not so much.

[unit]

i don't want to get the vaccine because covid is just the flu and hardly anyone actually has it. the government just wants to control our minds with 5g and bill gates and take away our rights. my body my choice except abortion. hospitals empty, masks are muzzles, and vaccines are untested anyway i'm not your guinea pig, no plandemic. open up bars, gyms are essential. 99% survival rate means not me, maybe my grandma but not me, she's old anyway.

[RRxtar]

is this a place to have discussions about the biggest current event topic in our lifetime that no one really has the answer for, or is it a place to belittle people with different perspectives and experiences because we have a holier than thou view of ourselves? because if it is the latter, it would explain why active members on RS have dropped to like 10.

[welfare]

Originally Posted by CRS

Name me one other virus/infectious disease that has had the same impact that COVID-19 has had in our modern era.

I don't really see it as a matter of comparison.
The reality is the vaccine (so far at least) is not intended to be effective in reducing the spread.
So other than treatment, what alternative would there be?

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by RRxtar

is this a place to have discussions about the biggest current event topic in our lifetime that no one really has the answer for, or is it a place to belittle people with different perspectives and experiences because we have a holier than thou view of ourselves? because if it is the latter, it would explain why active members on RS have dropped to like 10.

Well there's 38 members as of right now viewing this thread alone so I don't know that you're getting at.

Tired old tropes of misinformation do not count as "different perspectives and experiences" and deserve to be called out for the bullshit that it is. We've been talking about this for 8 months+ now and we still have people repeating the "99% oF EvErYoNe WhO GeTs It SuRvIvEs" & "It OnLy AfFeCtS OlD PeOpLe"

[Hondaracer]

The indisputable facts that people seem to be getting triggered by are

- the vaccine was obviously rushed, there’s no question. If anyone is familiar with medical device and medicinal certification and testing, the sample size in which the Pfizer vaccine trials is comparable to early stage testing. 44,000 person test group for something this size would -never- be approved normally. Hundreds if not thousands of other oral medications and treatments have gotten to this point in development in the past and then failed in the next stages and proven to be completely unfeasible. I’ve invested in companies in the past that have done so and my wife is a biomedical engineer who was part of QA for a few different companies getting certification. You can find dozens of examples of this online.

- the efficacy in terms of prevention of transmission is unknown (as has been posted)

- the efficacy in terms of prevention of death in the most vulnerable populations is unknown

- the long term efficacy of the vaccine is unknown

- the long term safety and side effects of this vaccine are unknown

- the effects on the body that a wide spread RNA vaccine may have are unknown as it has never been used on this scale before.

- the “long term health effects” of people who are infected by covid have not been accurately documented and most articles do not seem to have legitamite numbers and substantial fact behind them, rather they seem to have an underlying tone of fear mongering for the most part coming from the main steam media.

Given the circumstances many of the above points seem to be moot as getting a “fix” to the solution as quick as possible overwrites many of the concerns for most ppl it seems.

If we can’t at least discuss these points without degrading into name calling etc. This discussion is over here frankly. People can continue to have their circle jerk about how safe this is etc. Without any sort of actual facts besides basically clinical trial data.

[CRS]

Originally Posted by welfare

I'd imagine it would just end up becoming a part of life. Like every other virus/infectious disease we have no effective vaccine for.

Originally Posted by CRS

Name me one other virus/infectious disease that has had the same impact that COVID-19 has had in our modern era.

Originally Posted by welfare

I don't really see it as a matter of comparison.
The reality is the vaccine (so far at least) is not intended to be effective in reducing the spread.
So other than treatment, what alternative would there be?

[mikemhg]

Originally Posted by westopher

“Get rid of covid”
Here you need to lockdown to prevent the spread
“But the economy”
Please wear this mask and socially distance
“But my rights I can do what I want with my body and my property”
Here’s a vaccine
“Vaccine bad someone had a fever and if I get covid I might be asymptomatic”

It’s like some people don’t even want this to end so they can keep storming around talking about their freedoms being trampled on and have something to fucking blame the government for.

This, entirely. This is why I abrogate myself from COVID debates with people. The reality is, there's a lot of people out there with mental health issues, that aren't happy with their lives, with the world, and thus are looking for a reason to be angry about government, etc.

I even called a buddy of mine out about it, as he's one of those anti-covid, conspiracy, conservative types that thinks the world is going to end.

I asked him bluntly, "Let's be real here, you're not happy with your life, you somewhat wish that there was a societal collapse, am I not right?". He paused, and said, "You're right".

There's a lot of that going on here with these people.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

The indisputable facts that people seem to be getting triggered by are


- the “long term health effects” of people who are infected by covid have not been accurately documented and most articles do not seem to have legitamite numbers and substantial fact behind them, rather they seem to have an underlying tone of fear mongering for the most part coming from the main steam media.

From the CDC. Probably where the "mainstream media" is getting that information.

The most commonly reported long-term symptoms include:

Fatigue
Shortness of breath
Cough
Joint pain
Chest pain
Other reported long-term symptoms include:

Difficulty with thinking and concentration (sometimes referred to as “brain fog”)
Depression
Muscle pain
Headache
Intermittent fever
Fast-beating or pounding heart (also known as heart palpitations)
More serious long-term complications appear to be less common but have been reported. These have been noted to affect different organ systems in the body. These include:

Cardiovascular: inflammation of the heart muscle
Respiratory: lung function abnormalities
Renal: acute kidney injury
Dermatologic: rash, hair loss
Neurological: smell and taste problems, sleep issues, difficulty with concentration, memory problems
Psychiatric: depression, anxiety, changes in mood
The long-term significance of these effects is not yet known. CDC will continue active investigation and provide updates as new data emerge, which can inform COVID-19 clinical care as well as the public health response to COVID-19.

Of course they can't accurately document how common it is, how severe it is, and how long term it is. The long term doesn't exist yet.

[stewie]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Lol global news this morning:

“The vpd defends its position to not ticket or warn hundreds of anti mask demonstrators”

Followed by

“Bonnie Henry says Christmas will be virtual this year”

Fuck right off

Few coworkers were talking about this topic this morning and I remembered you saying this in here a few days ago.

Confusion on both ends. Some say they're still seeing their parents on christmas day and the others say they aren't and were bickering back and forth.

Directly quoted from Gov. BC. website

Core bubble
For most people, their core bubble is their immediate household. An immediate household is a group of people who live in the same dwelling. For example:

If you have a rental suite in your home, the suite is a separate household
If you live in an apartment or house with roommates, you are all members of the same household
For others, including people who live alone, their core bubble may also contain a partner, relative, friend or co-parent who lives in a different household. This should be a maximum of two people outside of those living in your immediate household.

few paragraphs later:

All December celebrations will look different this year. Celebrate with your immediate household or core bubble.

Consider hosting virtual parties and religious services
Unwrap gifts over Zoom or Skype
If you must travel for essential reasons, review the health and safety precautions

My core bubble consists of only 4 people who I see on a daily basis - My mom and dad when they're dog sitting on Mon, Wed, Fri, and my girlfriends mom and dad when they watch our dog on Tue, Thurs. They're all retired and want to take the dog from us so they can walk it and get exercise for all of them.
So based of the term of core bubble does that mean I'm allowed to visit my parents on Christmas day?



Can't remember if it was a picture somewhere in this thread of a mall food court with no masks and everyone eating with a safe space of an entire empty table beside them which is safe whereas dinner with 2 family members who you trust with your life is waaaaay to dangerous. Pretty much sums up my thoughts on this.

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

The indisputable facts that people seem to be getting triggered by are

- the vaccine was obviously rushed, there’s no question. If anyone is familiar with medical device and medicinal certification and testing, the sample size in which the Pfizer vaccine trials is comparable to early stage testing. 44,000 person test group for something this size would -never- be approved normally. Hundreds if not thousands of other oral medications and treatments have gotten to this point in development in the past and then failed in the next stages and proven to be completely unfeasible. I’ve invested in companies in the past that have done so and my wife is a biomedical engineer who was part of QA for a few different companies getting certification. You can find dozens of examples of this online.

Look I'm not a doctor, epidemiologist, or even a biomedical engineer. But I would think Vaccine trials are structured a little differently than medical equipment testing. My understanding is that COVID vaccine trial phases weren't shortened or abrogated but instead run in parallel. Regular vaccines run phases in a series due to budgetary/funding concerns and regulatory approval delays - there simply is no sense of urgency for other vaccines. With this vaccine the entire might of the world economy and political will is behind it so that's why they were able to do more phases at once, without sacrificing due diligence.

Then again, if explanations like this won't convince you, let me ask what will? How long will you wait before you take the vaccine to see if "all is clear"? How many long term longitudinal studies must be done first? Or will you just refuse to get it no matter what because it's somehow been "tainted" politically?

[320icar]

Originally Posted by unit

i don't want to get the vaccine because covid is just the flu and hardly anyone actually has it. the government just wants to control our minds with 5g and bill gates and take away our rights. my body my choice except abortion. hospitals empty, masks are muzzles, and vaccines are untested anyway i'm not your guinea pig, no plandemic. open up bars, gyms are essential. 99% survival rate means not me, maybe my grandma but not me, she's old anyway.

The worst part of your satire is that to some people it isn’t.

[stylez2k4]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

The indisputable facts that people seem to be getting triggered by are

- the vaccine was obviously rushed, thereÂ’s no question. If anyone is familiar with medical device and medicinal certification and testing, the sample size in which the Pfizer vaccine trials is comparable to early stage testing. 44,000 person test group for something this size would -never- be approved normally.

This doesn't sound right to me. I had a look at the package insert for Shingrix that was approved in 2017:

Overall, 17,041 adults aged 50 years and older received at least 1 dose of SHINGRIX in 17 clinical studies.

The safety of SHINGRIX was evaluated by pooling data from 2 placebo-controlled clinical studies (Studies 1 and 2) involving 29,305 subjects aged 50 years and older who received at least 1 dose of SHINGRIX (n = 14,645) or saline placebo (n = 14,660) administered according to a 0- and 2-month schedule

and MenQuadfi (2020):

Because clinical trials are conducted under widely varying conditions, adverse reaction rates observed in the clinical trial(s) of a vaccine cannot be directly compared to rates in the clinical trial(s) of another vaccine and may not reflect the rates observed in practice. The safety of a single dose of MenQuadfi in individuals 2 years of age and older was evaluated in five randomized, active-controlled, multi-center clinical studies conducted in the US and Puerto Rico. In these studies, a total of 4,919 participants received either a primary dose (N = 4517) or a booster dose (N = 402) of MenQuadfi and were included in the safety analyses.

and DENGVAXIA (2019):

The safety of DENGVAXIA in subjects 9 through 16 years of age was evaluated in 9 randomized, placebo-controlled, multicenter clinical trials. In these studies, a total of 19,102 subjects 9 through 16 years of age received at least one dose of DENGVAXIA and 9,484 received placebo (0.9% sodium chloride). Overall, 50.9% of trial participants who received DENGVAXIA or placebo were female. Racial groups were reported as 18.9% Asian, 13% American Indian or Alaska native, 6.4% Caucasian, 2.6% black, and 59.1% as other. In the largest study (Study 1, NCT01374516; N = 20,869) conducted in four Latin American countries and Puerto Rico, most subjects (99.9%) reported Hispanic ethnicity. All studies enrolled subjects irrespective of evidence of previous dengue infection

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

I’ve invested in companies in the past that have done so and my wife is a biomedical engineer who was part of QA for a few different companies getting certification. You can find dozens of examples of this online.

What certification are you talking about? Are you referring to approval?

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

the “long term health effects” of people who are infected by covid have not been accurately documented and most articles do not seem to have legitamite numbers and substantial fact behind them, rather they seem to have an underlying tone of fear mongering for the most part coming from the main steam media.

Well yeah the disease has only been around 1 year. I'm not sure what long term date you are expecting...

[Ch28]

Originally Posted by westopher

“Get rid of covid”
Here you need to lockdown to prevent the spread
“But the economy”
Please wear this mask and socially distance
“But my rights I can do what I want with my body and my property”
Here’s a vaccine
“Vaccine bad someone had a fever and if I get covid I might be asymptomatic”

It’s like some people don’t even want this to end so they can keep storming around talking about their freedoms being trampled on and have something to fucking blame the government for.

Reminds me of all the Trump supporters consistently moving the goalposts to fit their narrative.