coronavirus discussion

[Rallydrv]

kinda funny, because China's response itself was/is no less like a pandemic, however WHO is telling others its not. oh the irony

[whitev70r]

China is now closing it's doors to people from other Covid19 hot zones. Irony at its best.

[EvoFire]

Fail me all you want Hondaracer, but it's pathetic how you are failing everyone who does not agree with you that this might actually be serious.

[SkinnyPupp]

I personally think it would be irresponsible to go on a cruise right now, and actually I am shocked it's even still scheduled.

Just put it off until you can go another time... Now is not really the time for that form of leisure.

[SkinnyPupp]

Twitter

Hotel being used as a quarantine site in China has suddenly collapsed, killing all but 16 people.

[Rallydrv]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

Fail me all you want Hondaracer, but it's pathetic how you are failing everyone who does not agree with you that this might actually be serious.

Lol butthurt at its best. That is

[sonick]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

https://twitter.com/ezracheungtoto/s...81572967374849

Hotel being used as a quarantine site in China has suddenly collapsed, killing all but 16 people.

Does that count towards coronavirus caused deaths?

[Rallydrv]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

China is not closing it's doors to people from other Covid19 hot zones. Irony at its best.

I read somewhere they r putting travelers in quarantine for 2 weeks.

Anyways I have come to respect China response to this and authoritarian mechanisms to enforce it. Who knows where we would be if they didn't go in a complete lockdown. Even if western nation block Chinese citizen. What they have done, has saved many lives in thr own nation.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by sonick

Does that count towards coronavirus caused deaths?

Nope. China has this under control now, remember? Hardly any deaths anymore.

[twdm]

Originally Posted by Akinari

People, including healthcare professionals, who continue to peddle this false rhetoric that COVID-19 is nowhere near as serious as the flu, continuing to tell people not to panic because you're not going to die from COVID-19 (LoOk At ThE mOrTaLiTy RaTeS), BECAUSE THE WHO AND THE CDC SAID SO, really need to shut the fuck up.

Anyone with half a spine knows that the actions and decisions made by the WHO and obviously the CDC, are bound to politics through a fragile balance between several different factors.

You're more likely to die from a car accident than to die from COVID-19, but go ahead, wear a bucket over your head and hide in your house for a year.

Healthcare professionals look at hard facts and statistics. Not emotion. That is the foundation of modern medicine. If we were to pander to uneducated masses, then we would be giving snake oils, tiger balms, aromatherapy or whatever hipsters and single mothers like to use today to treat killer diseases.

The hard facts are:
1. low mortality rates (even if you exclude chinese data, absolute rates are low)
2. mortality rates increase for the elderly and people with comorbid conditions (eg. heart conditions, diabetes etc) which is the same for all respiratory infections (so far no pediatric deaths, but likely a vulnerable group as well)
3. the CDC is staffed by medical professionals who have a duty to protect. Sure you can say some people may be pressured into certain statements politically, but do you really think all the doctors and allied health professionals who are working there would stay silent? If you can't trust the CDC and the WHO you might as well go to a naturopathic doctor for the rest of your life. Please don't vaccinate your children as well because it's all political.

If you disagree, you are welcome to post facts and prove me wrong.

Lastly, coronaviruses have always been around and the mortality rates are similar. You're never going to eliminate it just like how there's always a new flu every year. This particular strain is just more infectious than previous years. Let's say that this one hangs around distributes in a seasonal pattern like the flu. Are you going to hide for the rest of your life?

(Smallpox is the only viral disease eliminated by intervention in the history of man. Let that sink in for a second)

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by twdm

You're more likely to die from a car accident than to die from COVID-19, but go ahead, wear a bucket over your head and hide in your house for a year.

Healthcare professionals look at hard facts and statistics. Not emotion. That is the foundation of modern medicine. If we were to pander to uneducated masses, then we would be giving snake oils, tiger balms, aromatherapy or whatever hipsters and single mothers like to use today to treat killer diseases.

The hard facts are:
1. low mortality rates (even if you exclude chinese data, absolute rates are low)
2. mortality rates increase for the elderly and people with comorbid conditions (eg. heart conditions, diabetes etc) which is the same for all respiratory infections (so far no pediatric deaths, but likely a vulnerable group as well)
3. the CDC is staffed by medical professionals who have a duty to protect. Sure you can say some people may be pressured into certain statements politically, but do you really think all the doctors and allied health professionals who are working there would stay silent? If you can't trust the CDC and the WHO you might as well go to a naturopathic doctor for the rest of your life. Please don't vaccinate your children as well because it's all political.

If you disagree, you are welcome to post facts and prove me wrong.

Lastly, coronaviruses have always been around and the mortality rates are similar. You're never going to eliminate it just like how there's always a new flu every year. This particular strain is just more infectious than previous years. Let's say that this one hangs around distributes in a seasonal pattern like the flu. Are you going to hide for the rest of your life?

(Smallpox is the only viral disease eliminated by intervention in the history of man. Let that sink in for a second)

What "healthcare professionals" are you listening to that gives you these idiotic takes?

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by Rallydrv

kinda funny, because China's response itself was/is no less like a pandemic, however WHO is telling others its not. oh the irony

What China... actually, let's rephrase that... CCP is doing on coronavirus is absolutely disgusting.

First, they delayed the acknowledgment of the coronavirus until basically they could no longer cover it up because they needed some extreme measures for containment and it's impossible to hide if those measures were being applied (province-wide lockdown)

Then, they kept manipulating data to make it seems that the spread is not as bad as it actually is. The last report I read about China's adjustment on their counts was 6th time already. What kind of fucked-up situation require them to revise the tallying method 6 times?! It either showed continuos manipulation or total incompetence.

Third, China gets upset (actual phrase was "regret") because several countries started issuing travel/import bans of Chinese nationals/goods.

And WHO, a total puppet of China (anyone in doubt, google where Tedros, current WHO chair, is from and how much that country is receiving from China) kept insisting that this whole thing is not that bad and under control... and that we should appreciate what China is doing. WTF!

I always thought CCP was corrupt AF. After this whole coronavirus thing simply asserted my assumption that CCP cannot be trusted... no matter what benefit they promise you. Because for any benefit they are willing to give, they'd simply try to get something greater back from you. My Chinese friend who's quite pro-ccp always told me the financial benefit CCP brought to China. And I tell him... look at Singapore, Taiwan, Korea, they all are democratic and are doing better than China (on a per capita basis). China was going to be better regardless. In fact, CCP might be limiting on what a great China can become because all the corruption and suppression going on in the country.

[twdm]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

What "healthcare professionals" are you listening to that gives you these idiotic takes?

I am a frontline healthcare professional with 10 years of experience managing these exact types of patients. What medical training do you have?

Again, instead of posting facts to support your beliefs, you resort to ad hominem attacks against medical professionals.

Here is one of your idiotic infectious disease specialists:
https://www.businessinsider.com/coro...disease-2020-3

But hey it must've been easy to get their degree and specialty qualifications amiright?

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by twdm

You're more likely to die from a car accident than to die from COVID-19, but go ahead, wear a bucket over your head and hide in your house for a year.

Healthcare professionals look at hard facts and statistics. Not emotion. That is the foundation of modern medicine. If we were to pander to uneducated masses, then we would be giving snake oils, tiger balms, aromatherapy or whatever hipsters and single mothers like to use today to treat killer diseases.

The hard facts are:
1. low mortality rates (even if you exclude chinese data, absolute rates are low)
2. mortality rates increase for the elderly and people with comorbid conditions (eg. heart conditions, diabetes etc) which is the same for all respiratory infections (so far no pediatric deaths, but likely a vulnerable group as well)
3. the CDC is staffed by medical professionals who have a duty to protect. Sure you can say some people may be pressured into certain statements politically, but do you really think all the doctors and allied health professionals who are working there would stay silent? If you can't trust the CDC and the WHO you might as well go to a naturopathic doctor for the rest of your life. Please don't vaccinate your children as well because it's all political.

If you disagree, you are welcome to post facts and prove me wrong.

Lastly, coronaviruses have always been around and the mortality rates are similar. You're never going to eliminate it just like how there's always a new flu every year. This particular strain is just more infectious than previous years. Let's say that this one hangs around distributes in a seasonal pattern like the flu. Are you going to hide for the rest of your life?

(Smallpox is the only viral disease eliminated by intervention in the history of man. Let that sink in for a second)

If you look at Italian data alone, for anywhere without a HIGHLY (cap for emphasis) advanced medical infrastructure, the mortality rate is around 20%. In all other countries, where you can count the cases with your fingers, it's still ok and death rate is still low because their current infrastructure can handle it. Korea, Italy, Iran... etc all had major outbreak because their medical system could no longer handle. Take all that into consideration and get back to me to tell me that the mortality is low.

I'm not going to be too pessimistic. I do think people are being unreasonable with their behaviors in this situation. But the fact is, this virus might very well be the worst in our lifetime. However, if we, as a society, take the necessary procedures, like avoid mass crowd gathering, constant sanitizing our hands and avoid unnecessary trips abroad or even just to the airport, we can reduce the potential of further major outbreak by a magnitude.

If China's data is to be believed... (which I don't think... but let's just do for the sake of argument), harsh interventions are working for them (province-wide lockdown). And if we can do a more civilized, but similar effectiveness approach, we could reduce the spread by many folds and even eradicate in countries like ours where we don't have many cases to begin with.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by twdm

I am a frontline healthcare professional with 10 years of experience managing these exact types of patients. What medical training do you have?

Again, instead of posting facts to support your beliefs, you resort to ad hominem attacks against medical professionals.

Here is one of your idiotic infectious disease specialists:
https://www.businessinsider.com/coro...disease-2020-3

But hey it must've been easy to get their degree and specialty qualifications amiright?

You could be a doctor or a bus driver for all I care, you are literally posting bullshit and spreading misinformation on a public forum.

I'm glad there are people who know better that are looking out for you

As for mindless panic and hoarding toilet paper, I agree it's the wrong thing to do.

Same goes for hoarding anything - hand sanitizer, masks, gloves, etc. We want the public to have access to this stuff as much as possible. Hoarding it only keeps it out of the hands of the masses, allowing the virus to spread more rapidly.

Here's a take from another doctor to check out

Twitter

[twdm]

Originally Posted by Hehe

If you look at Italian data alone, for anywhere without a HIGHLY (cap for emphasis) advanced medical infrastructure, the mortality rate is around 20%. In all other countries, where you can count the cases with your fingers, it's still ok and death rate is still low because their current infrastructure can handle it. Korea, Italy, Iran... etc all had major outbreak because their medical system could no longer handle. Take all that into consideration and get back to me to tell me that the mortality is low.

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...7-people-under

This article has a good tally on cases and deaths further down the page. There are 233 deaths out of 5883 confirmed cases in Italy which is ~4% mortality rate. Which does not line up with your 20% death rate. Please do let me know where your statistic came from. The US theoretically has a ~10% death rate, but I think that number is only because the screening rates do not capture the actual infection rates.

So if you add in the people who are undiagnosed due to trivial symptoms, the absolute mortality rate is far less than what is reported.

[whitev70r]

Originally Posted by Rallydrv

I read somewhere they r putting travelers in quarantine for 2 weeks.

I stand corrected, they are starting to close it's borders to some regions!

[twdm]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

You could be a doctor or a bus driver for all I care

You are literally posting bullshit and spreading misinformation

I'm glad there are people who know better that are looking out for you

As for hoarding toilet paper, I agree it's the wrong thing to do.
Here's a take from another doctor to check out

"This is the most frightening disease I've ever encountered in my career."

Richard Hatchett, the doctor leading efforts to find a vaccine for coronavirus, says it is much more lethal than normal flu. pic.twitter.com/1tjJ2ed0Hq

— Channel 4 News (@Channel4News) March 6, 2020

Again, where is your proof? Post facts not bullshit.

You haven't posted a single piece of evidence to support your claims or refute my claims.

Edit: are you fucking stupid? please google his organization? This is his company description: "The Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations (CEPI) is a global alliance financing and coordinating the development of vaccines against emerging infectious diseases."

And you have the balls to say WHO and CDC is politically motivated? Well isn't this guy fucking financially motivated? Guess why he wants to create publicity against this virus? Guess what happens if he develops a vaccine?

You're actually going to take the word of someone who is working to get paid versus people who are putting their lives on the line to save people.

[whitev70r]

^ he does that a lot. Watch, he'll fail me anytime now.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by twdm

Again, where is your proof? Post facts not bullshit.

You haven't posted a single piece of evidence to support your claims or refute my claims.

Edit: are you fucking stupid? please google his organization? This is his company description: "The Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations (CEPI) is a global alliance financing and coordinating the development of vaccines against emerging infectious diseases."

And you have the balls to say WHO and CDC is politically motivated?

Well isn't this guy fucking financially motivated?

I mean the proof is in your very posts

First you say the mortality rate is low

Then you say the mortality rate in Italy is 4%

Are you saying 4% is low?

Edit: As for being financially motivated, does that not apply to all pharma companies? Whoever comes up with a vaccine is doing it not out of altruism, but to make money doing it. That goes for all drugs.

[twdm]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

I mean the proof is in your very posts

First you say the mortality rate is low

Then you say the mortality rate in Italy is 4%

Are you saying 4% is low?

Edit: As for being financially motivated, does that not apply to all pharma companies? Whoever comes up with a vaccine is doing it not out of altruism, but to make money doing it. That goes for all drugs.

4% is a fucking low mortality rate if you know what the hell you're talking about.

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by twdm

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...7-people-under

This article has a good tally on cases and deaths further down the page. There are 233 deaths out of 5883 confirmed cases in Italy which is ~4% mortality rate. Which does not line up with your 20% death rate. Please do let me know where your statistic came from. The US theoretically has a ~10% death rate, but I think that number is only because the screening rates do not capture the actual infection rates.

So if you add in the people who are undiagnosed due to trivial symptoms, the absolute mortality rate is far less than what is reported.

I already said, it's 20% when there's no adequate medical facility. It wasn't meant to make an argument that it's actually 20%, but rather arguing that your statement of low mortality rate is not true. It might be less deadly to say ebola or even SARS/MERS (over 10% on all of them). But it's HIGHLY deadly when comparing to seasonal flu. (sub 1%) AND it has EXTREMELY high transmission rate.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by twdm

4% is a fucking low mortality rate if you know what the hell you're talking about.

Well... fuck I can't even think of how to respond to that.... I think we just have to stop.

Wow. Just.. wow

[twdm]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

Well... fuck I can't even think of how to respond to that.... I think we just have to stop.

Wow. Just.. wow

Yes please stop. Not everyone who comes into a hospital comes out alive. I'm sorry to destroy your fairy tale life.

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

Well... fuck I can't even think of how to respond to that.... I think we just have to stop.

Wow. Just.. wow

Second that... got nothing else to say.

Spanish flu, the previous major pandemic had JUST 2-3% of mortality rate. And it went on to kill 50million people (roughly under 3% of total population back then).

Yeah... I'm sure it's no big deal.