REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum

CivicBlues · 09-09-2021, 03:07 PM

There is a time limit:

Quote:

By order of the Provincial Health Officer (PHO), proof of vaccination is required to access some events, services and businesses. Starting September 13, you must have at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine. By October 24, you must be fully vaccinated. The requirement is in place until January 31, 2022 and could be extended.

Also, Asian pushing 40 - still get carded occasionally. Seeing my ID's birthdate usually elicits a guffaw from the cashier at the till.

Great68 · 09-09-2021, 03:22 PM

Yes I saw that statement and was referencing the "and could be extended" note. That's pretty vague and open ended.

Would be helpful if they provided the criteria that would cause it to be extended

inv4zn · 09-09-2021, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Great68

Yes I saw that statement and was referencing the "and could be extended" note. That's pretty vague and open ended.

Would be helpful if they provided the criteria that would cause it to be extended

Of course they're going to leave in 'could be extended', it would be monumentally stupid not to do so.

It's not some nefarious reason, it's in case shit goes further south and they legitimately need to extend the program so the majority of people can still do things.

And honestly, it starts in September with a proposed sunset clause of January, which means for about 3 months people will be using the system. You're ok with a minor inconvenience for 3 months, but not 4? or 5 or 12?

For the customer, this is truly a minor inconvenience. For the worker, yes this will likely be added stress.

Coren · 09-09-2021, 04:06 PM

Provincial Minister of Health Adrian Dix shared the demographics of B.C.'s ICU population at a news conference on Thursday as he repeated his perpetual appeal for residents to get vaccinated.

Dix said there are 130 people in intensive care in the province as of Thursday - one more than the number officially released by the health ministry on Wednesday - though he cautioned that Thursday's numbers had not yet been finalized.

Of those 130, Dix said, 111 are unvaccinated, 10 are partially vaccinated and nine are fully vaccinated.

Moreover, no one under age 50 who is in a B.C. ICU right now is fully vaccinated, Dix said.

That group - people in intensive care with COVID-19 who are under age 50 - accounts for 32 of the 130 ICU cases, according to the health minister's numbers. That's roughly one-quarter of coronavirus patients in intensive care.

As has long been the case, older people account for a larger portion of those hospitalized with COVID-19. Still, those who are unvaccinated make up most of the ICU cases among B.C. residents age 50 and older.

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/all-covid-19-p...says-1.5579272

Great68 · 09-09-2021, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inv4zn

Of course they're going to leave in 'could be extended', it would be monumentally stupid not to do so.

It's not some nefarious reason, it's in case shit goes further south and they legitimately need to extend the program so the majority of people can still do things.

And honestly, it starts in September with a proposed sunset clause of January, which means for about 3 months people will be using the system. You're ok with a minor inconvenience for 3 months, but not 4? or 5 or 12?

For the customer, this is truly a minor inconvenience. For the worker, yes this will likely be added stress.

Sorry dude, you're not going to convince me to like this "minor inconvenience". I told you how it is, and that I'll be complying but I'm not happy about it, nor do I have to be.

If it gets to 12 months with this vaccine card thing, then that just means the vaccines are becoming useless.

CivicBlues · 09-09-2021, 04:50 PM

It's an inconvenience for sure, but won't it give you even a little more peace of mind knowing the loud talker at the next table or the person blowing their nose in line at a concert is confirmed to have been vaccinated?

westopher · 09-09-2021, 05:04 PM

Thoughts and prayers for all of those that have to show a barcode on their phone when they walk into a restaurant.
You don’t have to like it, but your other option is to just have a full lockdown again. That sound like a better time?

Great68 · 09-09-2021, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

It's an inconvenience for sure, but won't it give you even a little more peace of mind knowing the loud talker at the next table or the person blowing their nose in line at a concert is confirmed to have been vaccinated?

Thing is, I've been fully vaxxed for a couple months now, I'm not really worried about an unvaxxed person sitting next to me...

Great68 · 09-09-2021, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westopher

Thoughts and prayers for all of those that have to show a barcode on their phone when they walk into a restaurant.
You don’t have to like it, but your other option is to just have a full lockdown again. That sound like a better time?

Oh fuck off. I already said I'm fully vaxxed, had absolutely no hesitation to do so. Who are you trying to villify here?

If shit goes sideways enough that we have to go to lockdowns, it's not because the unvaxxed could get into these things. There are so many other vectors of transmission still open.

donk. · 09-09-2021, 05:27 PM

whitev70r · 09-09-2021, 05:28 PM

Where is or what happened to Mr. HappySilp ...

underscore · 09-09-2021, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Great68

I'd like some more defined dates/milestones from the government as to when it will be removed.

How can they really nail those down with how fluid the whole situation has been, when there's nothing you can use as a reference for how this will go?

westopher · 09-09-2021, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Great68

Oh fuck off. I already said I'm fully vaxxed, had absolutely no hesitation to do so. Who are you trying to villify here?

If shit goes sideways enough that we have to go to lockdowns, it's not because the unvaxxed could get into these things. There are so many other vectors of transmission still open.

Lol I’m not trying to vilify you. I’m giving you the other option. Sound fuckin sweet? It’s literally a very slight minor annoyance compared to something that’s catastrophic for people’s financial well being.
Nobody fucking knows what’s gonna happen man. You think virologists and doctors think they know? They are the first to admit they don’t know where this is going. That’s how it’s gone so far, so placing definitive timelines just sets them up for failure and to have more dickheads protesting outside hospitals because they were “mislead.”
I’m not worried about unvaccinated people infecting me either, but what I am fucking worried about is when my wife gets redirected to the covid ward because these stupid fucks fill up the hospital again.

SkinnyPupp · 09-09-2021, 05:52 PM

For like 6 or 8 months (no idea what time is anymore) we've had to sign in whenever we go into any restaurant or government facility... It's not a big deal. Just have your phone out when you enter.

And of course the timeline is open ended, it's covid. Who the fuck knows what things are going to be like in January?

MarkyMark · 09-09-2021, 06:01 PM

I hope they implement this passport at my gym so less people show up lol

Bouncing Bettys · 09-09-2021, 06:22 PM

A QR code, whether on your phone or on a printed piece of paper, suggests that the government will instantly know exactly where and when you visit businesses requiring these passports. I am not really comfortable handing them that power so easily, as opposed to all the other methods they might do that which would require some levels of legal hoops to do.

Why can't it be a simple physical card that those businesses can check in person, like bouncers, liquor store employees, gas station attendants, etc. are all trained to do?

Are people still going to be ok with QR passports as the situation changes under a new wave to include more services, even essential ones, or to have to present them to travel to other health regions? What if they decide to prevent people who are "spreading misinformation about covid" or criticizing the WHO/CDC/goverment from accessing services and businesses? Then we are into a Chinese-style social credit system with little effort.

I have had covid, I am pro-vax, pro-mask (when it makes sense), and you might have even had me onboard with a physical vaccine passport. Can anyone explain how these QR codes can't/won't track your movements as apposed to a physical passport?

Manic! · 09-09-2021, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys

A QR code, whether on your phone or on a printed piece of paper, suggests that the government will instantly know exactly where and when you visit businesses requiring these passports. I am not really comfortable handing them that power so easily, as opposed to all the other methods they might do that which would require some levels of legal hoops to do.

Why can't it be a simple physical card that those businesses can check in person, like bouncers, liquor store employees, gas station attendants, etc. are all trained to do?

Are people still going to be ok with QR passports as the situation changes under a new wave to include more services, even essential ones, or to have to present them to travel to other health regions? What if they decide to prevent people who are "spreading misinformation about covid" or criticizing the WHO/CDC/goverment from accessing services and businesses? Then we are into a Chinese-style social credit system with little effort.

I have had covid, I am pro-vax, pro-mask (when it makes sense), and you might have even had me onboard with a physical vaccine passport. Can anyone explain how these QR codes can't/won't track your movements as apposed to a physical passport?

Google and Facebook already know. Infact Google gives a history of what I did last month.

Bouncing Bettys · 09-09-2021, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manic!

Google and Facebook already know. Infact Google gives a history of what I did last month.

That fact was included in the part where I said:

Quote:

as opposed to all the other methods they might do that which would require some levels of legal hoops to do.

.
You consent to giving them that information when you use their service. The government has to jump through more steps (meant to protect us from them) to get that information from facebook and google.

Coren · 09-09-2021, 06:44 PM

Don't want to be tracked? Get off the internet forever

inv4zn · 09-09-2021, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys

That fact was included in the part where I said: .
You consent to giving them that information when you use their service. The government has to jump through more steps (meant to protect us from them) to get that information from facebook and google.

Yeah man, the government knowing where you are and what you do so they can sell that data for profit. Fuck that shit.

At least with Facebook and Google they have a legislated interest in the well being of the general public.

Oh, no, wait a minute.

Manic! · 09-09-2021, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys

That fact was included in the part where I said: .
You consent to giving them that information when you use their service. The government has to jump through more steps (meant to protect us from them) to get that information from facebook and google.

But who reads the TOS. Making and delivering physical cards would take weeks if not months and cost a lot more.

SkinnyPupp · 09-09-2021, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys

A QR code, whether on your phone or on a printed piece of paper, suggests that the government will instantly know exactly where and when you visit businesses requiring these passports. I am not really comfortable handing them that power so easily, as opposed to all the other methods they might do that which would require some levels of legal hoops to do.

Why can't it be a simple physical card that those businesses can check in person, like bouncers, liquor store employees, gas station attendants, etc. are all trained to do?

Are people still going to be ok with QR passports as the situation changes under a new wave to include more services, even essential ones, or to have to present them to travel to other health regions? What if they decide to prevent people who are "spreading misinformation about covid" or criticizing the WHO/CDC/goverment from accessing services and businesses? Then we are into a Chinese-style social credit system with little effort.

I have had covid, I am pro-vax, pro-mask (when it makes sense), and you might have even had me onboard with a physical vaccine passport. Can anyone explain how these QR codes can't/won't track your movements as apposed to a physical passport?

Want to point out I'm not pro-tracking or saying "if you don't do any crimes you shouldn't have to worry about it"

But what is it you are concerned about with "the government" tracking you?

Assuming they are doing this for nefarious purposes is a HUGE leap, but in case they are, what do you think their goal is?

Do you think there's some information about you in the QR code other than verifiable info about your ID and vaccine status?

Is there something in that QR code that wouldn't be on a physical ID card?

Is it more complicated for employees to scan the code, verifying the info "name, vaccination: yes" as opposed to looking at that same info on a physical card?

SkinnyPupp · 09-09-2021, 07:14 PM

For people wondering, a QR code is literally just text data converted into an image that can be easily scanned... You can scan it yourself to see exactly what it says. Whatever it says would also be printed on a card if they went that route, but that takes time and money for no good reason.

Assuming it's not encrypted, having a QR code is the same as having that info in text form on a piece of paper or a card.

There's nothing in a QR code that makes you any more traceable than what would be on a physical card.

Bouncing Bettys · 09-09-2021, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coren

Don't want to be tracked? Get off the internet forever

Interesting response. Not relevant or realistic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by inv4zn

Yeah man, the government knowing where you are and what you do so they can sell that data for profit. Fuck that shit.

At least with Facebook and Google they have a legislated interest in the well being of the general public.

Oh, no, wait a minute.

Yeah a legislated interest in the well being of the general public, no government has ever failed or abused that interest. No government has required oversight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manic!

But who reads the TOS. Making and delivering physical cards would take weeks if not months and cost a lot more.

When has the Liberal government shown any concern for cost during this pandemic? Maybe the fact that it would take so long and cost so much would remind them of how important personal freedom, as it pertains to government, is to do it right. They have the power to set up emergency measures to throw all the money and man power at the problem of issuing physical cards. Or they could just save all that and let us use the vaccine cards we were issued, while they pump out better cards. Or they could have had some foresight and issued better cards from the beginning. All better options to eroding personal freedom with a trackable QR code.

Bouncing Bettys · 09-09-2021, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

Want to point out I'm not pro-tracking or saying "if you don't do any crimes you shouldn't have to worry about it"

But what is it you are concerned about with "the government" tracking you?

Assuming they are doing this for nefarious purposes is a HUGE leap, but in case they are, what do you think their goal is?

Do you think there's some information about you in the QR code other than verifiable info about your ID and vaccine status?

Is there something in that QR code that wouldn't be on a physical ID card?

Is it more complicated for employees to scan the code, verifying the info "name, vaccination: yes" as opposed to looking at that same info on a physical card?

Let's just say I went without a cell phone up until 2011 because I didn't like the tracking and listening in abilities. And the whole Edward Snowden/NSA story pretty much vindicated my beliefs to my friends pissed off with how hard it was to get a hold of me lol.

As I said, and I must point out I am asking here as I am no expert, a QR code would give an instant log to the government of the identity, time and location of citizens so they know where you go, when you go, and how often you go to various places. I don't believe they should have the right to that information without oversight or limits (have they not also indicated they could extend its use?), regardless of their intentions, good or bad.

Handing a physical vaccine passport to an employee of a business so that they may verify my identity and vaccine status, does not give anything to the government. Otherwise every time I went to the bar in my 20's would have told them I drank too much and wasted too much money. It is not difficult to train someone to verify the vaccine cards with ID since minimum wage gas station attendants have to ID people all day long for cigarettes and lotto.