coronavirus discussion

[twitchyzero]

free rapid test on arrival, if positive result you get a call/text within 2 hours

that's how they do it in atlantic canada

[StylinRed]

26 deaths over the weekend damn

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2021/1...cases-weekend/

[Hondaracer]

Vaccine passport working well

[SkinnyPupp]

Is the inference that things would be the same or better without the passport?

[Hondaracer]

Presumably better as it was an attempt to get the unvaxxed vaccinated. However the last month or so when the passport has been in place there have been more deaths per day than during the entire pandemic

Combo that with 84% or more of BC residents being fully vaccinated and still having restrictions on indoor gatherings and sporting events, I wouldn’t say it’s too succesful

[westopher]

Yeah it's almost like we have a variant that's deadlier and more transmissible or something.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

However the last month or so when the passport has been in place there have been more deaths per day than during the entire pandemic

That's because you're in the middle of a huge outbreak

Singapore is going through the same thing right now

All the vaccines and restrictions aren't going to solve covid. You need to manage it so it doesn't completely overwhelm hospitals

The only way to "cure" covid right now, in that you have zero cases in the local population, is to do what HK and China and to a certain extent Japan are doing now. Or what New Zealand did for most of it (but are changing their policy). Have an insanely strict quarantine and basically shut off the ability to travel.

Others, like Singapore, have taken to a "live with covid and manage it" policy. That's why they're getting numbers that are higher than even the peak in 2020





There are pros and cons to each policy... I can tell you as someone living in a place with zero covid cases, it's nice for peace of mind, but pretty annoying that I can't travel. Singapore people would probably tell you that having insane restrictions (groups of no more than 2 people, no dining out, etc) is pretty annoying. Much worse than having a vaccine passport. But they can travel. A lot of people here want to "let covid in" and accept more restrictions, in order to open the borders.

Singapore is having a lot of deaths, but if you look at the numbers, 100% of vaccinated deaths were people with pre existing conditions. 100% of the deaths without pre existing conditions were those who were not vaccinated. The death rate is 44X higher with non vaccinated people

[Hondaracer]

Middle of a huge outbreak?

You mean the same numbers of infections per day since July? There have been an average of 700 cases for the last 3 months. How does the passport manage infections if they are unchanged by it?

Im not so much hating on the passport as to just saying welcome to the norm because the people who listen are the ones who are vaccinated.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Middle of a huge outbreak?

You mean the same numbers of infections per day since July? There have been an average of 700 cases for the last 3 months. How does the passport manage infections if they are unchanged by it?

Im not so much hating on the passport as to just saying welcome to the norm because the people who listen are the ones who are vaccinated.

Yes, Canada is in its 4th outbreak of covid.. The peak of wave 4 was mid September with around 8000 new cases and 70-80 deaths per day.

I'm just saying, the passport isn't that big of a deal from what I understand. It's just part of managing covid, because you can't get rid of it. There will probably more annoying things you will have to do in the future that you won't like, but will be necessary to live with... This is our life now.

[JDMDreams]

I'm curious to know the reasoning, Ontario has 3 times our population but our case count each day is close to twice their number. Is it because they are more spread apart? I believe we have similar restrictions.

[Vege]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Middle of a huge outbreak?

You mean the same numbers of infections per day since July? There have been an average of 700 cases for the last 3 months. How does the passport manage infections if they are unchanged by it?

Im not so much hating on the passport as to just saying welcome to the norm because the people who listen are the ones who are vaccinated.

I think the passports were intended to allow those who are vaccinated to get back to some sort of normalcy by being able to do the same things pre-covid. People who aren't vaccinated will still get infected elsewhere besides places that I want to go to.

As a positive side effect, sure it would be great if the passport would motivate some of those who are on the fence to get vaccinated. There will always be the selfish anti-vaxers who will never listen. That's why there will always be covid numbers. They don't agree with taking the vaccine, but also don't care about staying isolated in their own homes.

Anyone have a list of all the big Employers of BC who are now requiring vaccination as a part of their employment? Curious to see what employment opportunities will be available in the future for those who don't have an exemption from being vaccinated.

[JDMDreams]

^^ I guess they can be full time protestors

[Hakkaboy]

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

I'm curious to know the reasoning, Ontario has 3 times our population but our case count each day is close to twice their number. Is it because they are more spread apart? I believe we have similar restrictions.

They (Ontario) had a mask policy for grade 1 to 12 as soon as the school year started.

In BC, it was only required for grade 5 to 12, until that recently changed on Oct 1.

Not saying this is the single sole reason, but the age group missed by BC are obviously all unvaccinated and now make up the biggest # of cases per capita and are at risk to spreading it to other people

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/worrying-rise-...lyst-1.5600276

[Traum]

Originally Posted by Hakkaboy

Not saying this is the single sole reason, but the age group missed by BC are obviously all unvaccinated and now make up the biggest # of cases per capita and are at risk to spreading it to other people

Angus Reid released a survey result yesterday indicating that 1/2 of the parents (51%) plan to get their children vaccinated as soon as it is approved. But what was interesting -- or perhaps facepalm-worthy -- was, when they looked closer into it, 60-something percent of the university-educated parents were willing to do this, while only 40-something percent of the non-university-educated parents were willing to do the same.

I have been totally supportive of people getting themselves vaccinated, but I gotta admit that when it comes to children, there is a much bigger hesitation to get my kid to do that even though I'm still gonna do it. Esp for parents with boys, the carditis / pericarditis risks are real, although I have not been able to accurately gauge how big of a risk, or how common it really is. The news that I've seen from the medical community seem to suggest that the risks are quite low. But then there are at least several governments around the world who have -- perhaps only for the time being, but perhaps not -- chosen to not vaccinate their younger children yet. Seeing news like that stirs up hesitation and parental anxiety, and is not helpful in the vaccination effort.

[320icar]

Don’t children have like a 99.7% recovery rate even when unvaccinated? Someone can correct me on the number cuz I don’t remember. Don’t get me wrong I fully support the school mask mandate since they can still carry/spread it.

But although I’m willing to risk myself for the vaccine, I know what you mean about being more cautious with a child

[Hehe]

Yeah, I think the vaccine has too little study done (duh!) to show any confidence on the long-term effects of the vaccine, regardless of the brand/type, has on human body.

I'd skip it for now for the kids until a long-term study can be produced and peer-reviewed. Worst case scenario is that kids can't go anywhere public other than parks...

[MarkyMark]

I always find it amusing when parents are so concerned about their children's wellbeing but when it comes to their own health they couldn't give a fuck lol. People willingly took a shot without hesitation, in most cases urging other people to do it as well and getting upset if they didn't. Now suddenly it's "well there's not enough data" when it comes to their kids getting it.

[JDMDreams]

I've heard the risks of not getting vaccinated for kids > than the symptoms of getting the vaccine. As lots of people have very long recovery periods, Corona symptoms, can't smell, weakened lungs. There still hasn't been much clear cut research, I guess it just depends on how it effects the individual.

So yes kids won't die but do you want them to be the new super spreaders and possibly have life long lingering effects if they catch Coronas?

I'm sure we all remember how dirty the playground/ kids are, some literally lick dirt off the ground. All you need is one sick kid and they all get infected, unless you don't send them to school.

[inv4zn]

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

I always find it amusing when parents are so concerned about their children's wellbeing but when it comes to their own health they couldn't give a fuck lol. People willingly took a shot without hesitation, in most cases urging other people to do it as well and getting upset if they didn't. Now suddenly it's "well there's not enough data" when it comes to their kids getting it.

That's a bit unfair, children are inherently different than adults. As a parent I'd rather have side effects from the shot than my kid, I know I can deal with it and I'm not sure if they can, yet. It stems mostly from the age, not so much because of the hesitancy around the vaccine. I'd still get it for her though if her age group was approved.

Also, this is a bit tangential, but all parents will inherently have a bit of unreasonable illogic when it comes to their kids. There's no reason why I drink the plebian Dairyland milk at home while the baby gets Avalon organic whole milk from a glass bottle, but we do it anyway lol.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by 320icar

Don’t children have like a 99.7% recovery rate even when unvaccinated? Someone can correct me on the number cuz I don’t remember. Don’t get me wrong I fully support the school mask mandate since they can still carry/spread it.

But although I’m willing to risk myself for the vaccine, I know what you mean about being more cautious with a child

"Recovery rate" (from COVID) on its own means very little to me because it gives no indication of how the person might still be affected after the initial COVID infection has run its course through the person. There can be post-COVID complications, including long COVID, and those are really the issues of concern for me. This is especially true for children, with MIS-C, COVID toes, etc. being discussed to some extent in the news. But again, I can't seem to get a good grasp on how common they are. Knowing a ballpark percentage figure would be a lot more helpful.

For example, it seems to me that long COVID tends to affect 30 - 40% of people who have had COVID to some extent. That sounds like a really bad percentage to me, so it makes the decision to get vaccinated pretty straightforward. But what do you do when you don't have enough information to make an informed decision?

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

I always find it amusing when parents are so concerned about their children's wellbeing but when it comes to their own health they couldn't give a fuck lol. People willingly took a shot without hesitation, in most cases urging other people to do it as well and getting upset if they didn't. Now suddenly it's "well there's not enough data" when it comes to their kids getting it.

Are you a parent, Mark? If you are, it might be easier to understand why parents behave that way.

Like I've said earlier, the carditis and pericarditis are real because they have been observed among clinical trials in younger children. We know it mostly and disproportionally affect boys. I'd be less concerned and more willing to get my child vaccinated if she is a she. But for parents with boys, I just don't have enough information to make an educated guess on how the risks compared to the benefits.

As for my own decision to get vaccinated, that one is based on scientific evidence. First of all, I trust our scientists and doctors -- most of the time. Secondly, by the time I was eligible for the COVID vaccine, there were literally already millions and billions of people who have already taken it. So I figure my risks of the vaccine going wrong are fairly low lol~

[Hondaracer]

Can’t really blame people for being hesitant when 12-16 months into the vaccination program countries are now pulling the vaccines you were told were safe etc.

[MarkyMark]

Originally Posted by Traum

Are you a parent, Mark? If you are, it might be easier to understand why parents behave that way.

Like I've said earlier, the carditis and pericarditis are real because they have been observed among clinical trials in younger children. We know it mostly and disproportionally affect boys. I'd be less concerned and more willing to get my child vaccinated if she is a she. But for parents with boys, I just don't have enough information to make an educated guess on how the risks compared to the benefits.

As for my own decision to get vaccinated, that one is based on scientific evidence. First of all, I trust our scientists and doctors -- most of the time. Secondly, by the time I was eligible for the COVID vaccine, there were literally already millions and billions of people who have already taken it. So I figure my risks of the vaccine going wrong are fairly low lol~

I'm most definitely not, which admittingly gives me a different perspective on the situation. My comment stems deeper than the vaccine though, since most of my friends now have children you tend to notice things. A lot of parents sacrifice their own health (eat like shit, never exercise, always sleep deprived) for the kids. I'm sure once you have kids it's more understandable, but from the outside looking in you think "wouldn't the best thing for the kid be living as long as possible for them by taking care of yourself as well?"

Anyways that's my own selfish childless rant, not looking to start an argument on how people raise their kids.

[inv4zn]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Can’t really blame people for being hesitant when 12-16 months into the vaccination program countries are now pulling the vaccines you were told were safe etc.

Again, misleading. I assume you're referring to Sweden and Denmark, who pulled Moderna out of precaution for young people only and instead giving them Pfizer.

In their statements they say they paused Moderna due to increased risk of heart inflammation shown in young people, but the risk of the same condition is 6x more likely from getting Covid itself, and to get the Pfizer shot.

FWIW this is the same reason Moderna is not approved for <18 in the US.

[Traum]

Mark,

I am most definitely not looking for an argument either, and it is perfectly reasonable for non-parents to not understand the stuff that parents do to themselves in the name of "caring for their kids".

As a quick little blurb from me being a dad, I (obviously) love my kid, and want to provide the best of what I can to him. And when it comes down to it, there will be times when his well being is more important than mine. And a lot of times, there just isn't enough time, energy, money, or any combination of them to ensure everybody receives the level of care and attention they deserve, so the kid gets the priority.

It is really not that different from going to school full time while trying to balance health, social life, and school work. Or cars -- cheap, fast, reliable -- pick 2! You do the most of what you can with the hand that you've been dealt.

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

I'm most definitely not, which admittingly gives me a different perspective on the situation. My comment stems deeper than the vaccine though, since most of my friends now have children you tend to notice things. A lot of parents sacrifice their own health (eat like shit, never exercise, always sleep deprived) for the kids. I'm sure once you have kids it's more understandable, but from the outside looking in you think "wouldn't the best thing for the kid be living as long as possible for them by taking care of yourself as well?"

Anyways that's my own selfish childless rant, not looking to start an argument on how people raise their kids.

[JDMDreams]

RS Corona meat?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...r-19-1.6216724

"Hockey games, concerts, movie theatres back to 100% capacity for fully vaccinated people in B.C."