coronavirus discussion

[CRS]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

While the rest of the world opens up, places with direct comparable like the UK etc. who can function fully open how long are we going to carry on this theme of doing the right thing? Lol can’t wait till all the virtue is signaling starts dropping over not getting your 5th booster and DoInG YoUr ParT!!

Even the CBC is running stories about Canada having some of the harshest “lockdowns” globally with shit like police raiding hockey arenas in Quebec etc.

As a fully vaccinated person, I definitely am jealous of the states. Of course people try to always spin it back into some trump/ultra conservative BS. But I guarantee you even sleepy joe realizes the importance of operating under some semblance of normalcy.

Your frustrations should be with those that have not taken the vaccine. It is because of them that we still have these types of lockdowns.

People don't try to spin this as trump/ultra conservative BS. The truth of the matter is there is a disproportionate correlation between those groups and those that have not taken the vaccine.

[Hondaracer]

Completely out of my control.

Also given those case numbers on the last page, the hospital would still be full of fully vaccinated Covid cases by the look of it. We’re at 90% of people fully vaccinated and we’re still here. The beef can’t be with the unvaccinated anymore. According to all the experts from the beginning we should have been past this point given the uptake.

Whatever, same round about argument as usual. Seems like given the numbers and the daily case count should be in a better position than we are. Always reacting though

[CRS]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Completely out of my control.

Also given those case numbers on the last page, the hospital would still be full of fully vaccinated Covid cases by the look of it. We’re at 90% of people fully vaccinated and we’re still here. The beef can’t be with the unvaccinated anymore. According to all the experts from the beginning we should have been past this point given the uptake.

Whatever, same round about argument as usual. Seems like given the numbers and the daily case count should be in a better position than we are. Always reacting though

Of course we can.

The 10% or so of people still represents millions of individuals. The fact of the matter is, there just aren't that many beds. While I agree that the health care system is long overdue for an overhaul, the issue is certainly compounded by people not taking preventative measures.

[AzNightmare]

If you have Pfizer twice, should you get a different vaccine for the booster?

[Hondaracer]

If we as a society live and die over what 10% of the population do, we are on a razors edge lol

I don’t disagree with anything said but fuck like..this is where were at 2 years in? Pretty fucking wack

[pastarocket]

Breaking news...from Quebec. Quebec is going to impose a new tax on unvaccinated residents.

A "health" contribution.

https://www.hrreporter.com/focus-are...cinated/363079

Quebec Premier François Legault has announced that unvaccinated Quebecers will face a new tax.

“The vaccine is the key to fight the virus. This is why we’re looking for a health contribution for adults who refuse to be vaccinated for non-medical reasons,” he says.

“Those who refuse to receive their first dose in the coming weeks will have to pay a new health contribution.

It’s a question of equity, says Legault, citing the “important burden” put on the healthcare network by unvaccinated people.

“I think it’s normal that the majority of the population is asking that there be a consequence.”

[inv4zn]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

If we as a society live and die over what 10% of the population do, we are on a razors edge lol

I don’t disagree with anything said but fuck like..this is where were at 2 years in? Pretty fucking wack

I'm respectfully disagreeing with this, 10% is a very significant portion of the population when it comes to a functioning society. Like imagine if 10% of people drove drunk. Or if 10% of people didn't pick up their dog's shit, etc etc.

Like even scaled down microscopically, if you're having a family dinner with 10 people and 1 uncle is an absolutely asshole the entire dinner will be unpleasant. Then when he doesn't get invited the next year he'll throw a tantrum he's being excluded and blame Bill Gates or something.

[underscore]

imo that's no different than the taxes on cigarettes. you're well aware of the negative aspects of your choice so you can help pay for the impact of it.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by inv4zn

I'm respectfully disagreeing with this, 10% is a very significant portion of the population when it comes to a functioning society. Like imagine if 10% of people drove drunk. Or if 10% of people didn't pick up their dog's shit, etc etc.

Like even scaled down microscopically, if you're having a family dinner with 10 people and 1 uncle is an absolutely asshole the entire dinner will be unpleasant. Then when he doesn't get invited the next year he'll throw a tantrum he's being excluded and blame Bill Gates or something.

So to counter that, if 100% of the population was fully vaccinated would the pandemic be over? I highly doubt it

Why doesn’t the province release the demographic information of people in the ICU?

[westopher]

In the world? Yeah I mean we can pretty definitively say that.
There has been one, ONE, Death of a double vaccinated person under 70 in BC.
As much as people love the I told you so about vaccinations now that people are being infected as fully vaccinated individuals, the math still dictates that 10% of the population is more damaging to ICU capacity than 90% is.

[El Bastardo]

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

USA is open cuz they pay for their own healthcare, if you're a dumbass get sick with no vaccine, you're paying for your own hospital bill, sounds fair, unlike here it comes from the general publics wallet. And clogging up our resources. USA also has more hospitals per population than us due to the private health care

https://www.hhs.gov/coronavirus/covi...als/index.html

What services are covered at no cost?

COVID-19 testing (both diagnostic and antibody)

Testing-related in-person or telehealth visits

COVID-19 treatment and therapeutics

Treatment-related visits at an office, via telehealth, in an emergency room, for inpatient or outpatient/observation, at a skilled nursing facility, or for long-term acute care (LTAC), rehabilitation care, and home health

Use of medical equipment (e.g. oxygen, ventilator, etc.)

Ambulance for emergency transportation and non-emergent transfers

COVID-19 vaccination fees

If hospitalization and treatment wasn't covered by the government for COVID-related issues, you'd see a whole lot more dead people.

[sdubfid]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

So to counter that, if 100% of the population was fully vaccinated would the pandemic be over? I highly doubt it

Why doesn’t the province release the demographic information of people in the ICU?

They just released a few days ago that the numbers for the last 2 years have been inaccurate. Saying that anyone testing positive is recorded as a hospitalization due to COVID. There is no distinction in hospital with COVID or in hospital because of COVID.

Adrian Dix says Hospital beds currently at 95% capacity, prior to COVID in flu seasons beds were at 103.5% capacity. Now saying it’s not a bed issue but a staffing issue.

But Trudeau has stated we will have access to 130 million testing kits. Should be great for the environment and good for the budget.

Can anyone provide info for countries that have 100% vaccine rate and are now back to normal?

[CRS]

Originally Posted by sdubfid

They just released a few days ago that the numbers for the last 2 years have been inaccurate. Saying that anyone testing positive is recorded as a hospitalization due to COVID. There is no distinction in hospital with COVID or in hospital because of COVID.

Adrian Dix says Hospital beds currently at 95% capacity, prior to COVID in flu seasons beds were at 103.5% capacity. Now saying it’s not a bed issue but a staffing issue.

But Trudeau has stated we will have access to 130 million testing kits. Should be great for the environment and good for the budget.

Can anyone provide info for countries that have 100% vaccine rate and are now back to normal?

No one has this and this is the fucking problem.

Guys, are we seriously having this conversation?

[inv4zn]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

So to counter that, if 100% of the population was fully vaccinated would the pandemic be over? I highly doubt it

Why doesn’t the province release the demographic information of people in the ICU?

I would think in an ideal world where logistics aren't an issue, if 100% of the population was vaccinated within the first month of the vaccines becoming available/approved, then yes it would have fizzled out by now. The virus would have had a hard time finding new hosts to infect, would not have had time to mutate, etc. But of course, this isn't realistic.

The province does release this info, it's found here, Page 7. Note this is for the week specific to the report, and isn't cumulative.:
http://www.bccdc.ca/Health-Info-Site...ion_Report.pdf

[Hondaracer]

They don’t correlate those numbers with vaccinated VS unvaccinated though.

I agree either way unvaccinated are the anchor of the whole thing. But if they came out and said the ICU has 40% unvaccinated patients however 95% of those people are 75+ I think people would lose their shit. Hence why they don’t release those specific numbers.

People may say age range doesn’t matter but if it’s all elderly unvaccinated filling the icu, that would be a telling tale.

[westopher]

People really need to get it doesn’t matter what we do in our country to prevent it if we aren’t a self sufficient land nation with no travel. It’s just going to keep mutating. This disease will decide when it’s over, not us, unless the most impressive and cohesive cooperation between every country in the world happens which is nothing more than a fantasy.
That said, if you don’t do what you have access to, to MINIMIZE the risk to yourself and those around you, you’re just being fuckin stupid.

[underscore]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

They don’t correlate those numbers with vaccinated VS unvaccinated though.

I agree either way unvaccinated are the anchor of the whole thing. But if they came out and said the ICU has 40% unvaccinated patients however 95% of those people are 75+ I think people would lose their shit. Hence why they don’t release those specific numbers.

People may say age range doesn’t matter but if it’s all elderly unvaccinated filling the icu, that would be a telling tale.

Is there a vaccine against aging we're not aware of?

[inv4zn]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

They don’t correlate those numbers with vaccinated VS unvaccinated though.

I agree either way unvaccinated are the anchor of the whole thing. But if they came out and said the ICU has 40% unvaccinated patients however 95% of those people are 75+ I think people would lose their shit. Hence why they don’t release those specific numbers.

People may say age range doesn’t matter but if it’s all elderly unvaccinated filling the icu, that would be a telling tale.

I found this, although it's from AB:
https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-1...ccine-outcomes

Tables 4 to 10 are what you're looking for.

[Hondaracer]

So yea, look at Table 8 there

The unvaccinated 70-79 bracket make up a hugeeee portion of ICU admissions. Line that up with the other table of people who have underlying health issues admitted, more than 50% of that demographic also have underlying health issues.

People who’s age alone make them incredibly susceptible to respiratory disease.

I know it doesn’t change much as those unvaccinated are still the issue. But is a 25 year old unvaccinated person the issue? A 35 year old? Seemingly not outside of “not doing their part” I don’t really fault an unvaccinated 25 year old giving a 75 year old unvaccinated person Covid either, they’re both idiots.

Edit* I actually much prefer the way Alberta displays the data there to BC’s

[stylez2k4]

I'm also not sure what point you are trying to make, are you trying to say that COVID does not cause hospitalization?

Originally Posted by sdubfid

They just released a few days ago that the numbers for the last 2 years have been inaccurate. Saying that anyone testing positive is recorded as a hospitalization due to COVID. There is no distinction in hospital with COVID or in hospital because of COVID.

Source?

Adrian Dix says Hospital beds currently at 95% capacity, prior to COVID in flu seasons beds were at 103.5% capacity.

Are you taking into account that hospital capacity has been increased and the cancellation/postponement of surgeries?

But Trudeau has stated we will have access to 130 million testing kits. Should be great for the environment and good for the budget.

So you are against testing? Is vaccination also bad because we use billions of syringes?

[Hondaracer]

That just being blindly “angry” at the unvaccinated isn’t really justified as the people clogging the icus are morons but also highly susceptible to respiratory illness. The 25 year old unvaccinated isn’t really the issue.

Edit* so those stats from previous pages saying you’re X time more likely to end up in the ICU could essentially be followed up with IF you’re over 70 with underlying health issues.

Again, if Bonnie ever broke down these stats in this manner people would lose their shit. It doesn’t change the fact that surgeries are delayed/cancelled and it fucks over the people who are vaccinated and need care, but it’s not this total “scare” type atmosphere that loves to be sent out by the media etc.

[westopher]

It comes down to intent. The fact these people don’t give a fuck about how their actions affect people is what gets me. It speaks volumes about their character and they are probably shit people in other regards as well. Generalizing? Sure, but that’s the way the world works. Don’t wanna get lumped in with a group of cunts don’t do what they do.
For me it’s less about anger for the unvaccinated than it is about anti vaxxers though. I get some people aren’t vaccinated because they’ve basically been conditioned to be terrified of it. They’re wrong, but I feel sorry for them. People spreading misinformation about vaccines are the real pieces of shit. You’ve got guys like Joe Rogan who’s bullshit has literally cost his followers their lives.

[stylez2k4]

Originally Posted by westopher

It comes down to intent. The fact these people don’t give a fuck about how their actions affect people is what gets me. It speaks volumes about their character and they are probably shit people in other regards as well. Generalizing? Sure, but that’s the way the world works. Don’t wanna get lumped in with a group of cunts don’t do what they do.

The level of narcissisms that aggressive anti-vaxxers have with regards to their beliefs is astounding.

[Teriyaki]

If the ONLY issue being analyzed is ICU capacity then sure, maybe the unvaccinated 25 Year old cohort may not be directly taking up the space. I believe there are externality factors to being unvaccinated to be considered though that are hidden behind the scenes. Who are the ones that technically savvy and creative enough to create and post information that continues to perpetuate the unvaccinated use to justify their actions? Who are the people most likely to go against the grain of the "greater good" and be unmasked on a train, in public spaces? Now not all of them may be vocal of course, but just the small act choosing to be unvaccinated lends strength to the rest that.

Strength in numbers and in a community. The 75 year old unvaccinated didn't just arrive and take up that bed alone. There was a vast community of support and a series of miniscule decisions made by a subset of people that led to that ultimate result.

So yes, pointing the finger blindly at that one specific young person doesn't make sense in vacuum but we live in a society and human beings naturally look to their counterparts for that confirmation bias and boy is it easy in this day and age to get it.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by Traum

Personally, I think an indiscriminate fee like that is utterly unfair. However, I agree it should be charged if the said unvaccinated person becomes hospitalized and requires medical care. When you are consciously making that decision to opt out of vaccination after looking at all the clear scientific proof for 2+ years, there is really no excuse to not sleep in the same bed that you've made yourself.

That's what Singapore is doing. If you are hospitalized with covid but not vaccinated (without medical reason), you have to cover medical expenses on your own.