coronavirus discussion

[westopher]

Now that things are being reported to be returning to normal (ish) in China, what did they do that Italy hasn't?
What can we learn?
And I'm not talking about placing blame on reactions anywhere. What do we need to do tomorrow, what does the government need to do tomorrow?

[SpeedStars]

They created hospitals to quarantine everyone that was *suspected* to be infected and made attempts to pretty much test EVERYONE. Country was on lockdown for nearly two mounths and they also had communism on their side.

Italy is in lockdown and hopefully it works. The thing that is killing people in Italy atm is the lack of healthcare for people due to it being overcapacity. It appears that the only way to control this virus is either test everyone and quarantine them or have a complete shutdown.

[bobbinka]

Originally Posted by westopher

Now that things are being reported to be returning to normal (ish) in China, what did they do that Italy hasn't?
What can we learn?
And I'm not talking about placing blame on reactions anywhere. What do we need to do tomorrow, what does the government need to do tomorrow?

Lie?

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by KDMofo

How is everyone else's workplace dealing with closing and paying their employees?

Specifically salary employees.

We're trying to keep our shop open as long as possible cause my employee's including myself want/need to work.

As far as my company goes. Some dept are strictly working from home, others are on rotation schedule so some will come in MWF and others TTH and switch every week. Others like myself are still working in the office but it could change the next day. We are getting laptops setup for us to work at home when needed. Techs are also on a rotation and is only new installs and no service service calls only. No upgrades or other BS service calls (customer wants a tech to go in to relocate where their router is etc etc). As far as I know some people are scare to come to work in case they get infected. I am not too scare even though I took the skytrain while other drive. Once I get to the office first thing i do is wash my hand and same when I get home. I also work the 7am shift so I get on the skytrain at aorund 5:50am and there are hardly anyone at the time anyways. I also have wet ones wipe to use when I can't wash my hands so I am good. Might start wearing mask to work when it gets worse.

[Harvey Specter]

My wife works at Vancity HQ, she was informed that she will have to work from home for 2 possibly 3 months.

[Hondaracer]

Italy’s population is also pretty old and (just looked it up 25% of the population is over 65)

My wife remarked when she was in Europe years ago a heatwave hung over Italy for a month and literally hundreds of elderly died during that time.

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by bobbinka

Lie?

I'd second this. Don't trust China's number one bit. Or at the very least, the Chinese number is not an apple to apple comparison to the rest.

Originally Posted by Harvey Specter

A friend of mine who's Chinese works IT for Pirelli in Italy. He basically got out before the pandemic blew up but he said Italy is a no go for anyone Asian for a long time. Even before the pandemic he would tell me how co-workers would say he was stealing info to make replica tires in China and in general would never be welcomed when he went out. He might not return to Italy or Europe and instead look for work locally.

You should blame the CCP for this.

Under CCP's regime, China cared nothing but economic growth, aka, money. Not moral value, discipline, etiquette, ethic... just money.

The act of corporate espionage and the stealing of IP is encouraged in China's corporate environment. Because it's not a society governed by law, where there's a boudary, or a rule of game, but about who has a better connection to the Chinese elite.

There is no cooperation with them. All they care about is their own financial success. When they are willing to "work" with you, it means that they are trying to benefit themselves. There's no such thing as a win-win situation. You either benefit them, or you don't. They don't care. It's a rat-race. I don't think every Chinese/Chinese company are like that, but I've seen way too many times in my work life to still have any faith or even the slightest courage to trust when working with Chinese/ChiCom.

So much so that I'd go out of my way, to tell my suppliers that if they are working with any ChiCom on my project, we can just call any potential deals off because it's a risk I'm no longer willing to bear. (I worked in the IT consulting business, and had way too many cases where Chinese competition or even clients themselves simply stole our idea from somewhere of our own company or our suppliers) Because they think if they can get away with this, they can make xx amount more on this project.

This is why Chinese or ChiCom get such a bad rep... even though many of them might very well actually be good people, the prejudice on Chinese (as in China) is just too big, when even their government endorse such an idea.

Edit: just to clarify, the "Chinese" here are actually Chinese from China, rather as the ethnicity. I don't hate Chinese, I married one and have many good friend from China. But I've had many bad exp. working with Chinese/ChiCom in my professional life that I simply gave up on them.

[welfare]

Yea no. This curve is just a little too flat .

[The_AK]

I can smell the bologna numbers from here. Im guessing its about a weeks time we see the US numbers spike dramatically. Not sure about Canada, I think its going to be much slower here in comparison to US especially when you see things like all of Florida go to the beach.

[hud 91gt]

The curve is definitely strangely flat. I don’t trust China at all, but they did take serious measures (did we forget the stories of welding doors shut already?).

If they were actually able to quarantine infected, and suspected individuals in a short period of time, that would effectively flatten the curve completely, no? The halfway approach everyone else is going, is going to have a dyno graph like a B16. China’s big block V8 looks quite appealing

[StylinRed]

Originally Posted by StylinRed

Italy is going to surpass China in deaths by tomorrow, and what's more shocking is that Italy isn't counting deaths from nursing homes, because they won't even test them for corona, but reportedly there are many nursing home deaths due to a flu

Just reported on bbc

Ah an article

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN2152V0

MILAN (Reuters) - As the official death toll from Italy’s coronavirus outbreak passes 2,500, a silent surge in fatalities in nursing homes, where dozens of patients a day are dying untested for the virus, suggests the real total may be higher.

[GS8]

Originally Posted by The_AK

I can smell the bologna numbers from here. Im guessing its about a weeks time we see the US numbers spike dramatically. Not sure about Canada, I think its going to be much slower here in comparison to US especially when you see things like all of Florida go to the beach.

Which is funny because right now, Florida is fifth highest for active cases at 320 (8 deaths so far). Considering how many old people live in Florida, I worry...

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by welfare

Yea no. This curve is just a little too flat .

That peak in China happened when they changed the requirements for someone to be considered a COVID-19 patient. The day after they did that tally, they switched to another counting method

Anyway, whether it's BS or not (obviously it is and always was), as soon as they try to open up again and "live their lives" another breakout will occur in another city. It's practically guaranteed as long as there are patients in the country that haven't been found yet.

It IS technically possible for the curve to be that flat, but they'd have to be lying about the amount of deaths. There's a non 0% chance that they're just killing people and not calling it a coronavirus death.

"Saving Face" is literally the most important thing to the party these days, and they will do ANYTHING to do that.

[Amuse]

Of the 43 cases today, what is the breakdown of where the cases were found? Is there a website that tracks where the cases are from?

I also received a forwarded message today. I am wondering if anyone else received this?

BREAKING NEWS** March 18/2020: 15 cases of Coronavirus linked to Metrotown mall in Burnaby, B.C.
Everyone who visited the following stores within the last 3 days needs to go to hospital or self isolate at home as soon as possible because even if your not feeling symptoms you could still be carrying and unknowingly spreading the virus.

- Nike
- Footlocker
- Aldos
- BlueNotes
- Below the Belt
- Banana Republic
- Guess
- Gap
- Jack & Jones
- Le Chateau
- TOPMAN

Everyone please spread this message because things could get out of control and call the Coronavirus hotline 1-833-784-4397. BC Government.

[whitev70r]

Is it time to change title of thread to just Coronavirus?

[underscore]

China's approach: Lie and weld people in buildings
USA/Russia approach: Don't bother testing
NK approach: Just kill them

All are good for numbers, but bad for actually keeping people alive.

Canada isn't doing full testing either, the gov't will need to start locking things down hard because people still don't have a clue what is going on in the rest of the world. Today I've had to try to tell my parents to stop worrying about reno's (they've been running all over town, had the internet guy there yesterday, a plumber coming in for quotes tomorrow), had my neighbour say (from a distance) everything is a big surprise, saw friends posting about their vacations and that they aren't coming back yet, other friends saying how they're enjoying how less busy all the stores are and they're fine with it cause it's only gonna kill old people which frees up medical wait times and housing.

Meanwhile I'm trying not to panic too much about my older relatives or the ones with pre-existing conditions, or how badly it'll go if anything happens to my family that requires hospital care when things get beyond maxed out, or if I'll even be able to get the things my family needs if the supplies in warehouses start running out.



Sorry for the small rant but everyone being completely oblivious to how fast this can get bad is stressing me out. Granted I might've been too since most of the info I've gotten (especially earlier on) was thanks to this thread. Forums still trump everything else for sharing information.

[iwantaskyline]

Originally Posted by hud 91gt

The curve is definitely strangely flat. I don’t trust China at all, but they did take serious measures (did we forget the stories of welding doors shut already?).

If they were actually able to quarantine infected, and suspected individuals in a short period of time, that would effectively flatten the curve completely, no? The halfway approach everyone else is going, is going to have a dyno graph like a B16. China’s big block V8 looks quite appealing

There's literally a video of a government official in a hazmat suit forcing people into a metal cube/cage in the back of a truck because they're infected.

[Sentinel]

Originally Posted by Amuse

I also received a forwarded message today. I am wondering if anyone else received this?

Received from my friend, who received from another friend. I don't see anything on any news outlets at the moment.

[Nlkko]

Originally Posted by westopher

Now that things are being reported to be returning to normal (ish) in China, what did they do that Italy hasn't?
What can we learn?
And I'm not talking about placing blame on reactions anywhere. What do we need to do tomorrow, what does the government need to do tomorrow?

We need to track trace and quarantine aggressively. Something that all Asian countries that has successfully flatten the curve have been doing. For example, in Vietnam, all inbound air traffic from Europe are quarantined for 14 days at an isolated military campus, regardless of nationalities. They test people multiple times and feed them proper meals daily for 14 days.
This is something that the Trudeau and Trump government have failed to do and are still failing to do. It comes at a high economic cost for the government, that is no doubt. But the cost of closed businesses and unemployment are even higher.

Our government are also not testing aggressively, as WHO recommended. There is no reason you can test at a drive-through in South Korea in 10 minutes like getting a McDick and it costed $1,100 USD + $3500 ER fees to test in the US (only recently made free). The most dangerous spreaders are the people who have no symptoms. They aren't self-quarantine. They are out and about spreading the plague. China have test kits. Re-engineer them, do whatever you must, but get those tests out there to us plebs, symptoms or not. Don't waste anymore time re-inventing the wheel. Time we don't have.

Disinfecting public places. People thought it's funny when Chinese have 4 trucks in parallel rolling down the street spraying disinfectant. It worked. A lot of other countries are disinfecting neighborhoods the same way.

Vaccine are at the minimum a year away. Can't wait for that.

Summary:
- Track, trace, quarantine
- Test, test, test
- Disinfecting
- Take it seriously. It's the "just the flu" people that got us into this mess.

You already have exhibit A of countries who have successfully flatten the curve. You literally don't have to re-invent the wheel. Do the same damn thing.

And you have exhibit B of countries who have failed to do so like Italy. Italy's medical system got completely overwhelmed. It's over for them when care-providers like doctors and nurses started fallen ill. Once they are fallen ill, they are out for 14 days. That's a long time for this plague. And we need time. Flattening the curve is basically buying time for the medical system to do its work and treat pneumonia. As a result, their curve is still growing exponentially.


---------------------------------------
Rant: Trudeau government have failed us. The same way Trump government have failed the American people. Closing border to essential services only and aggressive quarantine measure should have been done a long time ago, not last week. Everyone knew about the plague mid January. We are only doing something today. It's a joke.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by Amuse

Of the 43 cases today, what is the breakdown of where the cases were found? Is there a website that tracks where the cases are from?

I also received a forwarded message today. I am wondering if anyone else received this?

Unless it came from a government agency, you can probably ignore it, like most text forwards

Good to check with others before reacting

[G]

Originally Posted by Sentinel

Received from my friend, who received from another friend. I don't see anything on any news outlets at the moment.

There was also an image circulating of a memo from Vancouver Coastal Health about not taking Ibuprofen (Advil); I think it turns out this image was fake so that's pretty ballsy. I would really double check every forwarded message before you forward to more people.

[iwantaskyline]

Originally Posted by Harvey Specter

Sen. John Cornyn Says China ‘Is to Blame’ for Coronavirus Because They ‘Eat Bats and Snakes and Dogs’

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/se...akes-and-dogs/

A friend of mine who's Chinese works IT for Pirelli in Italy. He basically got out before the pandemic blew up but he said Italy is a no go for anyone Asian for a long time. Even before the pandemic he would tell me how co-workers would say he was stealing info to make replica tires in China and in general would never be welcomed when he went out. He might not return to Italy or Europe and instead look for work locally.

His co-workers don't know the people cutting them their cheques are Chinese? lol. Majority owners of Pirelli is a Chinese company,

[nismodrifter]

Originally Posted by G

There was also an image circulating of a memo from Vancouver Coastal Health about not taking Ibuprofen (Advil); I think it turns out this image was fake so that's pretty ballsy. I would really double check every forwarded message before you forward to more people.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/ibupr...irus-1.5501496

[snowball]

Originally Posted by Amuse

Of the 43 cases today, what is the breakdown of where the cases were found? Is there a website that tracks where the cases are from?

I also received a forwarded message today. I am wondering if anyone else received this?

If this was true I would assume they would just shut metrotown down completely. However, no news yet. I did mention earlier in this thread I was at metrotown on Monday, it was pretty damn busy so I wouldn't be surprised.

[SkinnyPupp]

UK "caught off guard" like everyone else

They plan to shut down London

Before I moved here, I didn't realize what a privilege it is for a country to be able to choose their own leader. I think nobody really realizes it, and that's why they keep electing clowns to run their countries