HELP! Kaltire and Canadian Tire said my car is too old for their alignment machine!

[Boostaholic]

So I inherited this 72 Beetle (electric conversion school project) that needs some alignment done. I booked appointment at Kaltire today and after I arrived and dropped the car off, waited an hour and the mechanic said the car is too old for their alignment machine.

Then I went to Canadian tire, and first the guy said sure no problem and wanted me to book an appointment for tomorrow. I asked him to double check with the mechanic if they can do it because I wasted an hour at Kaltire, and then the mechanic said nop they can't do it.

Anyone know what shop can do alignment on vintage cars or work on classic VWs not too far from Richmond? The car is electric with 10 year old batteries so I can't drive too far.

Here is a pic of the car:

[dared3vil0]

If the batteries are bad enough you can't drive it much, just do a basic alignment with some string and a measuring tape.

[tegra7]

^Or get towed. Autotech Alignment in Langley works on vintage cars

[68style]

I had this problem with my 68 Mustang when I needed to pass a provincial inspection to get modified collector plates... Canadian Tire said their computer software doesn’t have any stats for what a car that age is supposed to be at... likely this is the case with any big chain shop

[77civic1200]

They may not be able to input your car and pull up the numbers, but if you can give them the numbers they should all be able to do it...

[fliptuner]

They couldn't setup the most rudimentary steering? WTF.

Google the specs, inform the customer and make the adjustments.

[PiuYi]

is that the bug that was found dangling off second narrows a few years back?

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by fliptuner

They couldn't setup the most rudimentary steering? WTF.

Google the specs, inform the customer and make the adjustments.

That's too much work for most people


@OP, best to go to a mom and pop shop that cares. I don't have anything around Richmond that I know so sorry no help there. My experience with a lot of shops in Richmond would probably give you the same "Nope too old can't do" and secretly "Don't waste my time"

[underscore]

Maybe shoot CCA-Dave a pm?

For something like this the best bet is a small independent shop, big chains are only really good for common vehicles.

[trollface]

Go indi. Big shops like that work on 2010 civics all day. No one knows a damn thing about anything older than 90's.

[cafe22]

Try giving Beetle Spa and RX Autoworks in North Vancouver a call. I work nearby and I always see them working on classic bugs.

[Boostaholic]

Ok after calling few different shops, I decided to book an appointment with Juan's Auto Service next Thursday(earliest they have available) as he sounded most knowledgeable about the beetle and located in Richmond.

[Boostaholic]

Originally Posted by PiuYi

is that the bug that was found dangling off second narrows a few years back?

UBC engineering had been doing that for decades putting beetle in different places even Golden Gate in SF. Those were different cars though.

This one is the first EV to drive across Canada in 2010.
https://www.wired.com/2010/09/electr...ast-in-canada/

[nexusxv]

Go to turning oriented shops, they do custom stuff. aka speed syndicate or garage 5

[CCA-Dave]

Any shop with an alignment machine can do the job, if you give them the alignment specs.



You want the column on the left.

But really, just go to Dales Auto Service. Jason at Dale's is a VW guy, owns a beetle, and can align your car with his eyes closed. Seriously, cancel your other appointment and go where it will 100% be done correctly. Jason sorted the rear on both my Rally Bug and German Look beetle. Rear camber isn't adjustable from the factory. Jason, however, knew how to make the corrections needed.

[Boostaholic]

Originally Posted by CCA-Dave

Any shop with an alignment machine can do the job, if you give them the alignment specs.



You want the column on the left.

But really, just go to Dales Auto Service. Jason at Dale's is a VW guy, owns a beetle, and can align your car with his eyes closed. Seriously, cancel your other appointment and go where it will 100% be done correctly. Jason sorted the rear on both my Rally Bug and German Look beetle. Rear camber isn't adjustable from the factory. Jason, however, knew how to make the corrections needed.

Just called Dale's Auto Service. The guy on the phone said their alignment guy isn't named Jason, but their marketing guy is named Jason and used to own a beetle. They don't have spot till next Friday, and also needs me to drop the car off for the whole day which is logistically a little difficult as I dunno what I'd do in Langley for a whole day (or i'd need to find someone and take 2 cars).

I did find that alignment spec sheet online but many places I called said can't do it not sure why.

I was recommended to go to West Coast Frame and Alignment, they seem like they would know the car but after calling them I'd need to leave the car there for a whole day too which is inconvenient.

[CCA-Dave]

Well, you asked for advice and a solution...can't help it if you don't like the solution. Dropping the car off for a full day may be inconvenient, but it is typical.

You aren't driving a modern-day car with plug-and-play solutions. If you're looking for the honda-under-warranty experience, buy a Honda that is under warranty. Add to the fact that your car has been swapped to e-power, and you're in for a hell of a ride when it comes to getting it maintained "conveniently." That car also has suspension modifications which are not factory, adding to the potential issues you might find at an alignment.

That E-Beetle was lowered in the front circa 2009/2010, and I'm not sure by what method. It could have a lowering beam in it, it could be drop spindles. The car was given an inspection order back in 2010, and the height may have been 'corrected' to pass...but I'm not sure, your photo isn't at an angle that helps me determine. The thing is, if it wasn't set back to factory height front and rear, or if the front is lowered and the rear isn't, the factory alignment settings are almost impossible to hit. If the front and rear are lowered a light amount, you can hit the factory settings.

I won't be at all surprised to find out that they cannot get the correct camber settings in for the alignment, and you'll also find the caster is wrong if it doesn't have castor shims installed. The wheels that car has are the wrong offset and width, which combined with your photo angle make it really difficult for me to make any further assessments.

Unless you know what settings you _want_, be prepared for two alignment visits. One to determine the car can't be set to factory numbers, and a second to return with the parts and knowledge that might help correct it. This presumes that ball joints, bearings, and tie-rod ends are all in good shape (if they aren't, you can't even get the first "how close can we get" assessment).

I'd fully expect that you're going to experience the following:

1) We can't align it, your ____ are worn out.
2) You get the parts, and return to the shop. We can't align it, the car is too out of spec for ____ setting.
3) You PM me, tell me that they can't hit the caster/camber/other setting, and I tell you how to fix it.
4) You return, with parts and/or knowledge, and they get the car within spec, or within an acceptable margin.

...which is why I suggested Dales. You drop the car off, they discover #1. Take an educated guess that #3 will happen (since Jason knows the cars), and call you up with a list of parts and an extra day they need the car. Repair parts and modification parts show up, and you leave in good shape. Any other shop, and you'll be doing two or three visits.

This is life with classic cars, and especially life with modified classic cars.

[CCA-Dave]

Originally Posted by Boostaholic

So I inherited this 72 Beetle (electric conversion school project) that needs some alignment done.

What is the reason you've determined it "needs some alignment done"? What are the issues you are trying to solve.

[Boostaholic]

Originally Posted by CCA-Dave

Well, you asked for advice and a solution...can't help it if you don't like the solution. Dropping the car off for a full day may be inconvenient, but it is typical.

You aren't driving a modern-day car with plug-and-play solutions. If you're looking for the honda-under-warranty experience, buy a Honda that is under warranty. Add to the fact that your car has been swapped to e-power, and you're in for a hell of a ride when it comes to getting it maintained "conveniently." That car also has suspension modifications which are not factory, adding to the potential issues you might find at an alignment.

That E-Beetle was lowered in the front circa 2009/2010, and I'm not sure by what method. It could have a lowering beam in it, it could be drop spindles. The car was given an inspection order back in 2010, and the height may have been 'corrected' to pass...but I'm not sure, your photo isn't at an angle that helps me determine. The thing is, if it wasn't set back to factory height front and rear, or if the front is lowered and the rear isn't, the factory alignment settings are almost impossible to hit. If the front and rear are lowered a light amount, you can hit the factory settings.

I won't be at all surprised to find out that they cannot get the correct camber settings in for the alignment, and you'll also find the caster is wrong if it doesn't have castor shims installed. The wheels that car has are the wrong offset and width, which combined with your photo angle make it really difficult for me to make any further assessments.

Unless you know what settings you _want_, be prepared for two alignment visits. One to determine the car can't be set to factory numbers, and a second to return with the parts and knowledge that might help correct it. This presumes that ball joints, bearings, and tie-rod ends are all in good shape (if they aren't, you can't even get the first "how close can we get" assessment).

I'd fully expect that you're going to experience the following:

1) We can't align it, your ____ are worn out.
2) You get the parts, and return to the shop. We can't align it, the car is too out of spec for ____ setting.
3) You PM me, tell me that they can't hit the caster/camber/other setting, and I tell you how to fix it.
4) You return, with parts and/or knowledge, and they get the car within spec, or within an acceptable margin.

...which is why I suggested Dales. You drop the car off, they discover #1. Take an educated guess that #3 will happen (since Jason knows the cars), and call you up with a list of parts and an extra day they need the car. Repair parts and modification parts show up, and you leave in good shape. Any other shop, and you'll be doing two or three visits.

This is life with classic cars, and especially life with modified classic cars.

The car drives straight when I point the steering wheel at 11oclock, and it seems to wonder a bit as I need to constantly adjust steering to keep the car going straight. I think the toe is off for sure.

I'm not sure if front beam is modified or not. When we bought the donor car it was already modified. The front end we adjusted the height with the bolt in the center of the beam. In order to accommodate for heavy battery(mounted where back seats are) we had to set the rear torsion arm to a much higher position and add coil-overs. I just greased the front beam and bled the brakes yesterday and inspected the ball joints. They look ok visually but I'm not a mechanics so I don't know for sure.

I took some pictures of the suspension just now, can you what's on it? Also I noticed something weird is the rear passenger wheel seem to stick out beyond the fender whereas rear driver is tucked in. Is it due to suspension settings or is the driver side rear fender 'pulled out'? I took pictures in the gallery.

https://imgur.com/a/M492SVf

You made some very good points thanks. Let me see if I can find a ride to Langley, or if not I might have to risk my girlfriend driving my collector plated AMG there with me...

[CCA-Dave]

Originally Posted by Boostaholic

The car drives straight when I point the steering wheel at 11oclock, and it seems to wonder a bit as I need to constantly adjust steering to keep the car going straight. I think the toe is off for sure.

I'm not sure if front beam is modified or not. When we bought the donor car it was already modified. The front end we adjusted the height with the bolt in the center of the beam. In order to accommodate for heavy battery(mounted where back seats are) we had to set the rear torsion arm to a much higher position and add coil-overs. I just greased the front beam and bled the brakes yesterday and inspected the ball joints. They look ok visually but I'm not a mechanics so I don't know for sure.

Front beam is definitely modified, with adjusters which is fine. You've got standard spindles, so should be able to hit stock alignment settings without caster shims. Did you adjust the height by adjusting both the top and bottom adjusters, or just one? You should be doing both, an equal amount.

The rear upper shock mounts are not designed to carry any significant load, they are designed for the loads of damping only, not sprung weight. The proper way to accommodate for the battery weight is to swap out your torsion bars for a thicker set, available from Sway-a-way. If you are going to continue with the coil-overs, you need to make sure you have at minimum of a 3-bar Kafer brace, but much more preferably a 5-bar kafer brace.

I took some pictures of the suspension just now, can you what's on it? Also I noticed something weird is the rear passenger wheel seem to stick out beyond the fender whereas rear driver is tucked in. Is it due to suspension settings or is the driver side rear fender 'pulled out'? I took pictures in the gallery.

Pick a fender bolt, near the 'top' of the fender arch. Measure from the fender beading to the fender lip. It's far more common for one fender to be replaced, and of a different width dimension, then it is for the chassis to be that badly out of spec. If the fenders are the same, confirm the wheels are the same width and offset.

[Boostaholic]

Originally Posted by CCA-Dave

Front beam is definitely modified, with adjusters which is fine. You've got standard spindles, so should be able to hit stock alignment settings without caster shims. Did you adjust the height by adjusting both the top and bottom adjusters, or just one? You should be doing both, an equal amount.

The rear upper shock mounts are not designed to carry any significant load, they are designed for the loads of damping only, not sprung weight. The proper way to accommodate for the battery weight is to swap out your torsion bars for a thicker set, available from Sway-a-way. If you are going to continue with the coil-overs, you need to make sure you have at minimum of a 3-bar Kafer brace, but much more preferably a 5-bar kafer brace.



Pick a fender bolt, near the 'top' of the fender arch. Measure from the fender beading to the fender lip. It's far more common for one fender to be replaced, and of a different width dimension, then it is for the chassis to be that badly out of spec. If the fenders are the same, confirm the wheels are the same width and offset.

the last time height was adjusted was by other students long time ago so I'm not sure if they adjusted it equally. If I assume they did it wrong how do I make sure I do it right by redoing it? Do I loosen both all the way then turn top and bottom same amount of turns until ride height is set?

I didn't know about the kafer brace. When we had the shocks only with battery installed and torsion bar set the car was a little low, probably about 1 finger gap in fenders. AVR parts which sponsored us 10 years ago with some parts suggested adding the spring coil-overs. The spring didn't seem to be that stiff as it raised the car up by about 1 inch. I think they were these: https://avrparts.com/products/coil-o...af088e93&_ss=r


I'm actually pretty paranoid about the weight of the battery (1000lb) as i've seen crash video of the beetle and they don't seem to hold up and no crumple zone like modern cars. I am looking into adding a roll cage that will tie into the car frame and frame of the battery mounts for the driver's safety. Do you think the kafer brace high priority or both just as high? Or should I make the roll cage tie into the shock mount to stiffen it up? and Yes Im aware of the danger of roll cage for street cars and I will custom make it as far as possible from my head so I don't hit it.

I just measured the fender, both fender are about the same. so it might be the wheel or hub/rotor. on the passenger side it looks like there may be a spacer on the wheel not sure. I will pull the wheel later this afternoon and investigate further.

P.S I saw your car on the other thread and remembered seeing it posted on AVR's instagram just a few days ago and connected the two, looks sweet!