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10-13-2020, 07:07 PM
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#276 | | RS.net, helping ugly ppl have sex since 2001
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^ do you mean two steps forward and three steps back ... don't know if this fanbase can handle another shitty season. Somebody else said it, the success this year is a kind of curse in disguise. Normally, you'd expect a young rebuilding team to do better and go deeper the following year, which in this case means, get passed 2nd round in the playoffs .... not be eligible for the top pick next year!
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10-13-2020, 07:11 PM
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#277 | | JDMEK9Mod | DogWhisperer
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Progress in the NHL isn't always linear. I know our fanbase can be especially fickle but it isn't up to us what happens to this team. In this scenario, we are heavily handcuffed by bad contracts so until we shed them, we can't keep shooting ourselves in the foot expecting it to not continue to burn us. I'd much rather suffer for a year than risk not being able to afford the trio of petey, hughes and demko.
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10-13-2020, 08:13 PM
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#278 | Ebisu Boss
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Random thought: Even now, would you rather have Loui or Lucic?
I'm partial to Lucic even though both are on albatross contracts. Watching Loui float around is frustrating. At least a heavier pylon would disrupt the ice more.
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10-13-2020, 08:13 PM
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#279 | | Willing to sell body for a few minutes on RS
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The issue is that we’re going to end up paying Hughes and Pettersson guessing somewhere in the ballpark of $16-$18M up from the current $2.XM (depending on bonuses), not to mention Demko will be RFA, so even losing Edler ($6M), Sutter ($4.375M), Pearson ($3.75M), Baertschi ($3.367M), Benn ($2M), and Spooner’s buyout ($1.033M) and replacing them with league minimum players ($0.75M/each) only gains us around $2.8M in cap space (assuming $16.X for Pettersson and Hughes combined) plus any gains (if any) from the cap going up (if it goes up).
If the Canucks were going to make a run, this year would be the year. Instead we’re trying to stay afloat.
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10-13-2020, 08:14 PM
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#280 | | Willing to sell body for a few minutes on RS
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Originally Posted by Obsideon  Random thought: Even now, would you rather have Loui or Lucic?
I'm partial to Lucic even though both are on albatross contracts. Watching Loui float around is frustrating. At least a heavier pylon would disrupt the ice more. | 100% Loui. Loui can be exposed to Seattle, Lucic has to be protected.
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10-13-2020, 08:27 PM
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#281 | | Rs has made me the man i am today!
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There's also the possibility of bridge deals. The impact of COVID will go beyond this upcoming season. How long will it take to get people back in seats? Will arenas even be allowed to operate at full capacity? Will there even be a season?
If the cap isn't expected to increase at the rate it was before (in the short term), it may be in the players' interest to take bridge deals. If they all take bridge deals, then I think that timeframe would be our window to win.
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10-13-2020, 08:30 PM
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#282 | | Need to Seek Professional Help
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Originally Posted by Jmac The issue is that we’re going to end up paying Hughes and Pettersson guessing somewhere in the ballpark of $16-$18M up from the current $2.XM (depending on bonuses), not to mention Demko will be RFA, so even losing Edler ($6M), Sutter ($4.375M), Pearson ($3.75M), Baertschi ($3.367M), Benn ($2M), and Spooner’s buyout ($1.033M) and replacing them with league minimum players ($0.75M/each) only gains us around $2.8M in cap space (assuming $16.X for Pettersson and Hughes combined) plus any gains (if any) from the cap going up (if it goes up).
If the Canucks were going to make a run, this year would be the year. Instead we’re trying to stay afloat. | yea it sucks we should be taking advantage of their exceptional value...performance relative to contract. I think JB knows this and thats why we're so active. I don't think he's gonna sit back and let the season go by...all the rumors indicate he's activity and aggressively shopping..wouldnt be surprised if he lands one more trade
having a league minimum play on the squad the year after is kind of expected...and they already have 2 players they are hoping would make the team...their last names are Podkolzin and Hoglander...also keep in mind Tryamkin may be coming back too (although not sure what his AAV would be...could be low and short term on a "show me" deal)
i'd say we're in a strong position here...you can see the Covid situation has changed the marketplace...prior to this Petey/Hughes may be commanding 18-20M but not anymore...plus there's significant money coming off the books in 2 years and if the market stays like this there could be some further deals to extrapolate...sucks to be TML...they got some high fliers but the 6 high fliers command ~65% of this "flat cap" for the next 4 years
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10-13-2020, 09:04 PM
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#283 | | Willing to sell body for a few minutes on RS
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Originally Posted by bobbinka There's also the possibility of bridge deals. The impact of COVID will go beyond this upcoming season. How long will it take to get people back in seats? Will arenas even be allowed to operate at full capacity? Will there even be a season?
If the cap isn't expected to increase at the rate it was before (in the short term), it may be in the players' interest to take bridge deals. If they all take bridge deals, then I think that timeframe would be our window to win. | I had a big long post detailing this but I lost power when I was like 99% finished, so cell phone summary version it is.
There are 3 players reasonably comparable players coming off ELCs for Pettersson who signed bridge deals. Point at 3 x $6.75M, DeBrincat at 3 x $6.4M, and Boeser at 3 x $5.875M. Point coming off a 41-51-92 season, DeBrincat off a 41-35-76 season, and we know Pettersson is significantly better than Boeser (Boeser also didn’t have offer sheet rights while the other two and Pettersson did/will).
Assuming Pettersson is willing to accept a bridge and doesn’t force Benning’s hand with an offer sheet, you can probably safely assume it would be in the $6.5M-$7.0M range.
For dmen, well, there are no high-end dmen who signed bridge deals coming off their ELCs on CapFriendly. Closest is Sanheim at 2 x $3.25M but I wouldn’t say he’s even close to Hughes. The closest two are Provorov and Chabot with Chabot being the closer of the two in terms of play style and offensive production. Chabot signed an 8 x $8M extension coming off a 14-41-55 season over 70 games. His RFA years pay him $26M over 4 years which is $6.5M average.
He had offer sheet rights where Hughes does not, so maybe you get a bit of a discount for that (this assumes Hughes doesn’t improve this year), so I would say my expectation would be $6.0M-$6.5M on a bridge for Hughes.
Combined, you’re looking at around $13M on bridge deals.
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10-13-2020, 09:08 PM
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#284 | | Willing to sell body for a few minutes on RS
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Originally Posted by Sw0op yea it sucks we should be taking advantage of their exceptional value...performance relative to contract. I think JB knows this and thats why we're so active. I don't think he's gonna sit back and let the season go by...all the rumors indicate he's activity and aggressively shopping..wouldnt be surprised if he lands one more trade
having a league minimum play on the squad the year after is kind of expected...and they already have 2 players they are hoping would make the team...their last names are Podkolzin and Hoglander...also keep in mind Tryamkin may be coming back too (although not sure what his AAV would be...could be low and short term on a "show me" deal)
i'd say we're in a strong position here...you can see the Covid situation has changed the marketplace...prior to this Petey/Hughes may be commanding 18-20M but not anymore...plus there's significant money coming off the books in 2 years and if the market stays like this there could be some further deals to extrapolate...sucks to be TML...they got some high fliers but the 6 high fliers command ~65% of this "flat cap" for the next 4 years | Podkolzin won’t get league minimum, it’ll be ELC maximum plus performance bonuses. Hoglander is already at $0.892M plus performance bonuses.
Tryamkin will be UFA next summer, he can sign anywhere. I’d put the odds of signing in Vancouver at close to 0%.
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10-13-2020, 09:33 PM
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#285 | | Need to Seek Professional Help
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Originally Posted by Jmac Podkolzin won’t get league minimum, it’ll be ELC maximum plus performance bonuses. Hoglander is already at $0.892M plus performance bonuses.
Tryamkin will be UFA next summer, he can sign anywhere. I’d put the odds of signing in Vancouver at close to 0%. | Performance bonuses are applied the year after like Petey/Hughes..so if they play next year, their bonuses are applied the year after when LE/Luongo hits are off
Instead of league minimum of $750k they'll be at ELC contracts @ $925k for the year with bonuses applied the following year
Tryamkin is UFA in 2022....unless theyve changed the definition a player is UFA when he is 27 years of age as of "June 30th" and that wont be until 2022...so he's still our property if he wants to play the 2021-2022 season
Last edited by Sw0op; 10-13-2020 at 09:48 PM.
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10-13-2020, 09:41 PM
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#286 | | Need to Seek Professional Help
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Originally Posted by Jmac I had a big long post detailing this but I lost power when I was like 99% finished, so cell phone summary version it is.
There are 3 players reasonably comparable players coming off ELCs for Pettersson who signed bridge deals. Point at 3 x $6.75M, DeBrincat at 3 x $6.4M, and Boeser at 3 x $5.875M. Point coming off a 41-51-92 season, DeBrincat off a 41-35-76 season, and we know Pettersson is significantly better than Boeser (Boeser also didn’t have offer sheet rights while the other two and Pettersson did/will).
Assuming Pettersson is willing to accept a bridge and doesn’t force Benning’s hand with an offer sheet, you can probably safely assume it would be in the $6.5M-$7.0M range.
For dmen, well, there are no high-end dmen who signed bridge deals coming off their ELCs on CapFriendly. Closest is Sanheim at 2 x $3.25M but I wouldn’t say he’s even close to Hughes. The closest two are Provorov and Chabot with Chabot being the closer of the two in terms of play style and offensive production. Chabot signed an 8 x $8M extension coming off a 14-41-55 season over 70 games. His RFA years pay him $26M over 4 years which is $6.5M average.
He had offer sheet rights where Hughes does not, so maybe you get a bit of a discount for that (this assumes Hughes doesn’t improve this year), so I would say my expectation would be $6.0M-$6.5M on a bridge for Hughes.
Combined, you’re looking at around $13M on bridge deals. | closest bridge D would probably be Subban @ 2Y/5.75M AAV but that was like 8 years ago with the cap was rising to ~$70M + a lockout shortened season too...and Huggy is better than Sub..but thats probably the floor?
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10-13-2020, 09:48 PM
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#287 | | Willing to sell body for a few minutes on RS
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Originally Posted by Sw0op closest bridge D would probably be Subban @ 2Y/5.75M AAV but that was like 8 years ago with the cap was rising to ~$70M + a lockout shortened season too...and Huggy is better than Sub..but thats probably the floor? | Subban also was less than 4 months away from turning 24.
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10-13-2020, 10:00 PM
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#288 | | Willing to sell body for a few minutes on RS
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Originally Posted by Sw0op Performance bonuses are applied the year after like Petey/Hughes..so if they play next year, their bonuses are applied the year after when LE/Luongo hits are off
Instead of league minimum of $750k they'll be at ELC contracts @ $925k for the year with bonuses applied the following year
Tryamkin is UFA in 2022....unless theyve changed the definition a player is UFA when he is 27 years of age as of "June 30th" and that wont be until 2022...so he's still our property if he wants to play the 2021-2022 season | Bonuses can be deferred to the following season but that also means bonuses from the upcoming year can (probably will) be deferred to next year, too (e.g. Pettersson’s and Hughes’ bonuses).
Tryamkin will be UFA as he didn’t play the required number of games to still be an RFA at age 26.
He will be a group 6 UFA because he only has 79 NHL games (80 and he would still be an RFA at the end of this season). Quote:
Group 6 Free Agents.
(i) Means any Player who is age 25 or older who has completed three (3) or more professional seasons, whose SPC has expired and: (i) in the case of a Player other than a goaltender, has played less than 80 NHL Games, or (ii) in the case of a goaltender, has played less than 28 NHL Games (for the purpose of this definition, a goaltender must have played a minimum of thirty (30) minutes in an NHL Game to register a game played). For the purposes of the foregoing, the term professional season shall: (A) for a Player aged 18 or 19, mean any season in which such Player plays in eleven (11) or more Professional Games (including NHL Regular Season and Playoff Games, minor league regular season and playoff games, and games played in any European professional league, while under an SPC), and (B) for a Player aged 20 or older, mean any season in which such Player plays in one or more Professional Games (including NHL Regular Season and Playoff Games, minor league regular season and playoff games, and games played in any European professional league, while under an SPC).
(ii) Any Group 6 Player shall, at the expiration of his SPC, become an Unrestricted Free Agent and shall be completely free to negotiate and sign an SPC with any Club, and any Club shall be completely free to negotiate and sign an SPC with such Player, without penalty or restriction, or being subject to any Right of First Refusal, Draft Choice Compensation or any other compensation or equalization obligation of any kind.
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10-13-2020, 10:07 PM
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#289 | | Need to Seek Professional Help
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Originally Posted by Jmac Bonuses can be deferred to the following season but that also means bonuses from the upcoming year can (probably will) be deferred to next year, too (e.g. Pettersson’s and Hughes’ bonuses).
Tryamkin will be UFA as he didn’t play the required number of games to still be an RFA at age 26.
He will be a group 6 UFA because he only has 79 NHL games (80 and he would still be an RFA at the end of this season). | based on that definition shouldnt Tryamkin have been a UFA this offseason then?
By June 30, 2020 he was 25 years old and played 3+ professional seasons with <80 NHL games
everywhere i read it shows Nucks have his rights until end of 21-22 season and also an expansion exempt player in the Seattle expansion draft
Last edited by Sw0op; 10-13-2020 at 10:29 PM.
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10-13-2020, 10:30 PM
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#290 | | Willing to sell body for a few minutes on RS
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Originally Posted by Sw0op based on that definition shouldnt he have been a UFA this offseason then?
By June 30, 2020 he was 25 years old and played 3+ professional seasons with <80 NHL games
everywhere i read it shows Nucks have his rights until end of 21-22 season and also an expansion exempt player in the Seattle expansion draft | I don’t have an explanation for that. The only things I can think of is that they’re wrong, there’s something new in the MoU the NHLPA & NHL agreed on recently, he counts as a defected player, or some other bizarre corner-case definition prevents him from being a UFA (the CBA is like 540 pages of lawyer-speak).
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10-15-2020, 02:50 PM
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#291 | | Rs has made me the man i am today!
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lol 
Also, apparently Vegas was the one that initiated the Schmidt trade with us and suggested the 3rd round pick. They gave him to us to do the player a solid. Other teams didn't even have a chance to make offers.
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10-15-2020, 02:54 PM
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#292 | | OMGWTFBBQ is a common word I say everyday
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They just don't want Demko to boom them again.
__________________ Quote:
Originally Posted by PeanutButter Damn, not only is yours veiny AF, yours is thick AF too. Yours is twice as thick as mine.. That looks like a 2" or maybe even 3"? | | |
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10-16-2020, 09:29 PM
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#293 | | Rs has made me the man i am today!
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wow, Joe Thornton with Leafs at $700k
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10-16-2020, 09:53 PM
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#294 | | Performance Moderator
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Thornton as great a career as he’s had... has just never been a winner in the NHL... doubt he’s going to bring out the best in Matthews or Marner either
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10-16-2020, 11:39 PM
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#295 | | RS.net, helping ugly ppl have sex since 2001
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If at first you don't succeed (Marleau), then you try again (Thornton).
This move shouts: Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander ... you all need a veteran in the locker room to kick your gen Z ass.
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10-17-2020, 12:02 AM
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#296 | | RS has made me the bitter person i am today!
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^They already have Spezza and Simmonds for that. Matthews et al pitched him on signing so they obviously welcome his input. He makes an interesting option at 3C, pushing Kerfoot to the wing, where he had some success, or on the PP. I've seen it mentioned before but it would be interesting if they acquired Marleau at the trade deadline, but not for another 1st for damn sure.
On HF boards: Quote:
Canucks offered 1st, 2nd, Sutter, Virtanen for OEL
From Coyotes beat reporter Craig Morgan
I have heard from multiple sources that the sides had agreed on a draft pick and a contract coming back to Arizona, but they never could agree on the prospect. I think the Coyotes wanted either Thatcher Demko, Vasili Podkolzin or Nils Höglander and the Canucks kept saying no. I have also heard that the Vancouver offer was a first-round pick, a second-round pick, Jake Virtanen and Brandon Sutter.
| Benning was right to hold on to those pieces, but draft picks are a steep price in today's market.
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10-17-2020, 12:21 AM
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#297 | | I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
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Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys ^They already have Spezza and Simmonds for that. Matthews et al pitched him on signing so they obviously welcome his input. He makes an interesting option at 3C, pushing Kerfoot to the wing, where he had some success, or on the PP. I've seen it mentioned before but it would be interesting if they acquired Marleau at the trade deadline, but not for another 1st for damn sure.
On HF boards:
Benning was right to hold on to those pieces, but draft picks are a steep price in today's market. | I saw online that was what Arizona was asking for. If it was that, they be taking more bad contracts.
Thorton with the young guys? Isn’t he known to be the host of his yearly Vegas parties?
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10-17-2020, 12:36 AM
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#298 | | Performance Moderator
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Haha yah like Matthews needs anymore help partying / being an idiot (I actually like him as a player but he’s been involved in his fair share of disappointments off the ice thus far)
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10-17-2020, 12:44 AM
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#299 | | RS has made me the bitter person i am today!
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Can you blame Matthews for keeping a stupid night out (like we have never had one) from a POS like Babcock? Vegas can't compete with the Roxy anyways.
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10-17-2020, 01:15 AM
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#300 | | I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
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All that talent in his skills and in his teammates yet he cannot win a series for them.
19 pts in 25 playoff games.
Petey 18 in 17. One playoff series.
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