toyota ceo looks down on tesla

[twitchyzero]

Toyoda, 64, said during an online briefing on Friday after more than doubling the company’s operating profit forecast for the current fiscal year

Tesla says that their recipe will be the standard in the future, but what Toyota has is a real kitchen and a real chef.

They aren’t really making something that’s real, people are just buying the recipe. We have the kitchen and chef, and we make real food.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...io-toyoda-says

translation: we sell bmws, subarus, mazdas and keep our trucks 15 years young

[Traum]

I'm not fan of Tesla, but I recognize and respect the company for what it is. Many industry critics have indicated that in terms of battery and EV drivetrain tech, Tesla has a roughly 10 year technological lead over other other auto manufacturers.

So how does Toyota with the real kitchen and the real chef plan on catching up to that? And is your "real chef" a real chef when you're running 10 years behind?

[Hondaracer]

It’s rich that a company that recycles power and drivetrains from 15 years ago looks down on innovation.

[prelude_prince]

I work in the semiconductor industry and I have heard from our suppliers like Renesas that the Japanese government is actually holding back on the large automakers from going full EV , because they have to worry about the livelihood of the traditional automotive factory workers. There are much less assembly etc involved in building a EV. Not to mention as you all can see a lot of the factory workers in Japan aren't young guys but older folk.

[320icar]

Originally Posted by Traum

So how does Toyota with the real kitchen and the real chef plan on catching up to that? And is your "real chef" a real chef when you're running 10 years behind?

That doesn’t factor in that Toyota still uses engine designs from 1995, so really they’re a good 35 years behind. But at least they’re reliable

[twitchyzero]

Originally Posted by prelude_prince

I work in the semiconductor industry and I have heard from our suppliers like Renesas that the Japanese government is actually holding back on the large automakers from going full EV , because they have to worry about the livelihood of the traditional automotive factory workers. There are much less assembly etc involved in building a EV. Not to mention as you all can see a lot of the factory workers in Japan aren't young guys but older folk.

get them building cameras and appliances again for north american export

[teggy604]

35 years behind is one thing, but look for a used 4runner, Tacoma, FJ Cruiser and ppl are still asking insane money. lol

[dachinesedude]

Originally Posted by teggy604

35 years behind is one thing, but look for a used 4runner, Tacoma, FJ Cruiser and ppl are still asking insane money. lol

Toyota tax

[mr00jimbo]

Toyota was still using 4-speed auto transmissions up until not too long ago, and they have rested on their laurels so much that they have let others catch and and surpass them. Nevertheless, people will buy them because it's a Toyota.

I have one myself, but it's been far from problem-free.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by prelude_prince

I work in the semiconductor industry and I have heard from our suppliers like Renesas that the Japanese government is actually holding back on the large automakers from going full EV , because they have to worry about the livelihood of the traditional automotive factory workers. There are much less assembly etc involved in building a EV. Not to mention as you all can see a lot of the factory workers in Japan aren't young guys but older folk.

Not understanding this all that well. With widespread use of automation in automotive manufacturing, how many automotive factory workers do they still need? Besides, it isn't like Tesla employs zero factory workers to build their cars.

[JesseBlue]

I like the thinking that this big company/country cares about their employees. Who wants to be just a number. I know they're well known for their efficiency and it's a great benchmark for other companies to follow.

If they feel that they can still sell reliable combustion engine, let them. If tesla wants to produce electric cars, let them. You can see it as two different target audience.

[prelude_prince]

Not experienced in the actual automobile manufacturing but I would have to guess there should be much less assembly in a EV. No transmission and engine. Battery pack is probably outsourced.

And Japan is always known to be more conservative and reserved, porn and hentai aside. I work with some Japanese companies and the stories you hear are actually very heartwarming. They are not all cut-throat and profits-first (usually), they actually think of their employees. One recent story I heard is how this young salesman has a bad leg, so his company actually got him a deskjob instead but with the same paygrade. And oldschool japanese employees still envision themselves as being with that one company till they retire.

True this is probably not best for the future or P&L-wise, but they usually take a more steady road.

Example 1: I'm sure you guys have heard of famous Unagi restaurants in Kyoto dating back to the 1700s, and still the same shop. One might comment why they never furthered their vision and expanded globally. Then on the other hand the polar opposite would be LeTV from China. Within 5 or 6 years of it's establishment this company somehow became the worlds #1 TV maker, only holding the spot for 1 or 2 years before it went boom.

Example 2: Those of you familiar with Shenzhen China, almost all of the taxis there are EVs now. Why? The government had their hand into it, basically forcing taxi drivers to scrap their old cars for EVs. Country policy goes first and they do not think of the little man. Every taxi driver I've met do not want this. The government does not subsidize them enough for the change and the lineups and hassles to charge their car is more time consuming than filling up gas.

[twitchyzero]

honestly both have a lot to learn from each other even with the vastly different philosophies

Originally Posted by mr00jimbo

Toyota was still using 4-speed auto transmissions up until not too long ago.

which car?

i was surprised the fully loaded taco still has drum brakes for 50k+

[Traum]

Originally Posted by JesseBlue

If they feel that they can still sell reliable combustion engine, let them. If tesla wants to produce electric cars, let them. You can see it as two different target audience.

The biggest problem is, countries around the world are starting to ban sales of new ICE cars. Off the top of my head, the sales ban comes into play in 2030 for Germany, Sweden, and UK. California is aiming for the same thing in 2035. Canada is aiming at the same for 2040.

10 - 15 years is really not a very long time in terms of automobile manufacturers' product life cycle / time lines. And you don't really master that expertise in a generation or two.

And then what are you going to do once the ICE sales ban comes in?

[Akinari]

Originally Posted by Traum

The biggest problem is, countries around the world are starting to ban sales of new ICE cars. Off the top of my head, the sales ban comes into play in 2030 for Germany, Sweden, and UK. California is aiming for the same thing in 2035. Canada is aiming at the same for 2040.

10 - 15 years is really not a very long time in terms of automobile manufacturers' product life cycle / time lines. And you don't really master that expertise in a generation or two.

And then what are you going to do once the ICE sales ban comes in?

Such is why Toyota is quickly hybridizing their entire lineup i.e. new Sienna, Venza/Harrier. Hybrids are basically as mainstream as any other non-hybrid car these days. I wouldn't be surprised if Toyota starts dropping non-hybrid trims entirely from their other cars within the next 10 years. I can see every one of their cars being offered as a hybrid only, split into plug-ins and non-plug-ins.

[CorneringArtist]

Toyota may still be gunshy about current battery tech, and is probably waiting for the tech to advance enough to match the current fuel economy on their passenger cars without increasing cost to match. It would be brand suicide at this point in time to build a full EV Corolla that costs $35-40k and axe the gas models because of mandate.

However, their current focus for EV is currently through hydrogen, considering their heavy investment in the Mirai and collaboration on semi trucks in the US.

[twitchyzero]

the more phev they release the more their demographics will converge with crossshoppers of teslas

if subaru puts out a Forester/Outback EV even with 150 miles of range they wont be able to cash cheques fast enough

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by Traum

I'm not fan of Tesla, but I recognize and respect the company for what it is. Many industry critics have indicated that in terms of battery and EV drivetrain tech, Tesla has a roughly 10 year technological lead over other other auto manufacturers.

So how does Toyota with the real kitchen and the real chef plan on catching up to that? And is your "real chef" a real chef when you're running 10 years behind?

While I have some reason to believe there are things that Tesla is 10 years ahead of their competitors I'm not sure many of them are going to be relevant to the average buyer. Tesla is better at packaging batteries and optimizing power draw so that their cars have the most EPA tested range (though the advantage is much smaller in day to day to use) but beyond that what else do they do that's a differentiator?

Their build quality is HORRENDOUS, their designs are not innovative, their materials are pretty meh, and the ability to charge faster is an advantage that's going away.

For folks who are gripped by range anxiety there seem to be some fairly compelling options showing up soon (the VW ID lineup) that represent 80-90% of the technological achievement of Tesla, achievements which cover the bulk of the needs of the average buyer.

I look at the VW ID.4 and I think to myself that it's going to end up replacing my RDX in a few years (once I have a place to charge it). I look at the Tesla lineup and I think that it's all poorly built machinery with great underlying tech.

[prelude_prince]

Originally Posted by supafamous

Their build quality is HORRENDOUS, their designs are not innovative, their materials are pretty meh, and the ability to charge faster is an advantage that's going away.

I'd have to disagree with horrendous build and meh materials. I've had my tesla for 2+ years and I hear this complaint too often. It really isn't as horrible as people make it out to be. Doors and such actually feel solid and not 'cheap' in anyway.

Sure the panels aren't perfect and you can see gaps. But I can see the same gaps on a FK8 type R as well. One might argue that it's a 100k car (model x), but then they neglect that Tesla's only just been building cars as opposed to Honda or Toyota for decades and part of the price you're paying for is actually the technology in the car and not the build quality only. Not just fast charging but small user friendly functions they thought of like being able to turn on the A/C with the Tesla App while you're walking back to your car in the summer makes the car a godsend when you're in Hong Kong like me. I love being able to voice command GPS or get spotify to play a song in the car without getting my hands off my wheel. It's a great daily and the panel gaps don't upset me enough to disregard these perks.

I can see they are improving as they go along, not just in the tech but for the actual user as well, I for one am glad they are getting ride of the falcon wing gimmick doors as those do not work as well as traditional doors for the average user.

[!LittleDragon]

Originally Posted by mr00jimbo

Toyota was still using 4-speed auto transmissions up until not too long ago, and they have rested on their laurels so much that they have let others catch and and surpass them. Nevertheless, people will buy them because it's a Toyota.

I have one myself, but it's been far from problem-free.

Yup, I used to love Toyota. I had two MR2's. They were exciting, used to have 3 turbocharged sports cars in their lineup. A GT Cruiser, a mid engine sports car and an AWD rally car... And then they got boring... nothing but Corollas and Camrys. When I bought my first brand new car 10 years ago, I went with Hyundai... LOL