REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum

meme405 · 01-08-2021, 03:57 AM

So apparently I never learn my lesson. So here we go Round 2 with my series on shops you should avoid.

MDA Fucking Fabrication.

I'll preface this, with the fact that I have actively promoted MDA and Mac, for the last 3 years he has done a series of things for my car, including welding up a custom exhaust, mounting tires, and general maintenance. Which is why this to me is way worse than the VIP Autobody thing, because now people think I am endorsing MDA, so I have to come out and clear it up. The other reason for this thread is the fact that I made this information known to a private car club earlier this month, and I got so much negative feedback I had no idea about, including some really shocking stuff about MDA. I'm sure some of that may very well surface in this thread as well, but I'm just gonna stick to my experience.

I'll start way before the past visit that resulted in this thread. The previous work Mac has done for my car has been straightforward shit for the most part, and Mac seems to be a pretty good salesman, he's confident, treats you like a friend, and overall gives off a good impression. I thought we were friends to be honest, to the point that one time I had leftover diesel in my tidy tank, and I filled his truck for him for free.

But there were two signs that I knew and actively ignored:

1. Mac overcharges - when he gives you a quote you can expect the price to be 20% to 40% higher. I forgave this, I'm a business owner myself, and I believe people should be allowed to make money, nobody should have to work for free. So as long as it's honest and the work was done, I'm not going to hold you to losing money, which is why when I ask for a quote on custom work, I don't ask for hard dollars, I ask for a range.

2. Mac never finishes on time - doesn't matter what it is, expect your car to be there longer than you could ever imagine. Even when you set explicit deadlines. Again, my FX isn't a daily, this didn't matter to me, it was something I had come to know was going to happen and just accepted it. If mac told me it would be a few days I expected to not have the car back for 2 weeks.

To some people the two above items would immediately be deal breakers, for me they were inconveniences, but something I was willing to put up with because I thought Mac was a friend, a stand up person, and most importantly that he did good work. Unfortunately I was totally wrong.

Onto the reason why this thread exists:

I talked to Mac Late August about doing my front wheel bearings and some other misc front end work for me. I was honest and straight up with Mac, I explained to him I had attempted the wheel bearings in my driveway and that they were seized in the spindle. So it wasn't something I could do in my driveway. I didn't ask for a quote, I told him I'd bring him the car and he could sort it out.

The work order was for this:

-Left & Right wheel bearings replace
-Left and Right outer tie rods replace
-Align the car

I took him all factory nissan parts (hubs with bearings already assembled and outer tie rod ends).

I dropped the car off on August 31. I receive a call on september 2, stating they can't find the locking wheel nut key for the car. This was my fault, it wasn't in the car. I immediately left my office, got the key and took it straight there. So work on the car didn't start till September 3. I dont know why I had an appointment for Aug 31, if they weren't going to start on the car for 2 days, and you know they didn't even touch the thing because they didn't even know they didnt have the wheel lock key, the first thing you need to do.

I call MDA late on Friday Sept 4 to see how they are making out. I am told there is a leaking boot on the right CV axle, and that another axle has been ordered. And that Inner tie rods are also shot (which I should have seen coming so this one is on me). I ask why the whole CV is being replaced, and Mac says because if there is a leaking boot, his experience is that moisture can get inside and it's better to replace. Kinda stupid reason, I saw what he was talking about leak, and it was seriously nothing a new boot wouldn't solve. But whatever. Parts were ordered and on the way. The frightening part about this is that I was never told, and the work was proceeding anyway. I dont have an issue if things come up, but I think its pretty common to phone the customer and get the go ahead. Especially the axle since it's a $200 part.

Anyway, forward 7 days forward, its now the following friday, I haven't heard anything from Mac, so I call him Friday morning. The parts that were supposed to be there monday still have not arrived, he said they were supposed to be there that day. I swing by the shop at 2pm as I needed something from the car, shops locked, and nobody is home. Kinda bullshit, when you have hours as a business owner you kinda need to stick to them. This isn't a small shop, they have a decent amount of business.

Fast forward to the next week, I hear nothing so Wednesday I call, parts are supposed to be there that day. Okay wtf.

Phone again the next day, parts are there, working to have the car ready to go in the afternoon he mentions a speed sensor is having issues, to be expected a little bit, he gets a price on the part of course I tell him to go ahead and replace to get the car working properly. I eventually get a call,
from him saying they had some trouble with the speed sensors, and the alignment, but everything is sorted now, and 100% working. He gets my email for the invoice, and I double check with him no issues, no lights on. He reassures me everything is perfect.

I'll post the invoice below, you guys can be the judges of the costs:

I will say one thing, there is something on this invoice I just noticed, till now I had not noticed it, and that's the line that says ABS module fault, and pre-existing problem, discussed with customer. That's total BULLSHIT, He never told me anything about this on the phone or in person. And no the car had no such issues prior to going to MDA. As I said before on the phone I confirmed with him TWICE, no lights on the dash, and no issues, he said "yes".

As for the rest of the invoice, it's whatever, the cost is IMO high for what was done, again I'm not arguing, I tried to do it failed, and then took it in, without a quote who am I to argue. $200 for an alignment is a bit stupid though, nothing custom about it, I asked him to try and put is as close as possible to factory spec, I didn't ask for anything else. I guess the air ride complicates it a little, but I even sent him specs from another shop to try and help him. At the end of the day everywhere else has aligned this car for 100-125 bucks. So not sure why MDA gets to fleece me for 200 bucks.

So I arrive at MDA later that day to pickup the car. I enter from the back as I always do, cause they store cars in the back, I dont see the car, it's not in the shop either. I think this is weird cause it is always either in the back or still in the shop. Mac catches me and pulls me immediately into the office to pay the invoice. We talk for a second and I do so. He then gives me the keys and kinda walks away. I'm like wtf, where's the car dude, I dont see it anywhere. He's like it's out front. I go out front cars nowhere to be seen. Then his worker points it out to me, it's parallel parked way down the road on the opposite side of the street. I was like wtf. So I go get in the car fire it up, and immediately I have a christmas tree on my dash.

ABS, Traction, VDC. everything. I was like holy shit wtf.

I pull the car around back and get mac. He comes out and has a look, not surprised at all. He hooks up a scanner all the guys gather round, we trouble shoot for a bit, he goes for a drive. He comes back and says everything is reading correctly, and that there isn't any space to hit 80 around the shop so the speed sensors can calibrate, he says a highway drive should fix it. I was hesitant, and thought this was weird cause westminster is right there he could easily hit 80 if he wanted, but whatever I take the car thinking it might solve it self.

Obviously I make it home it does not. I call mac let him know, he says he will look up and trouble shoot and let me know.

Now were going to get into large gaps of time. Days pass and nothing. I drive back to MDA, talk to mac. He says he will dig into it again. I reinforce with him this is a serious issue, there is major safety systems of my car not working, and it all worked when I brought him the car. He eventually sends me an explanation that he thinks the ABS computer is broken and needs to be replaced. He gets a price of $2600 for the part, and I am literally in shock.

Here are those messages:

This is the first time Mac pisses me off. He suggests deleting ABS, and TCS and stuff. Like wtf. Why would I do that? I brought you a working car, I should get a fully working car back.

This conversation goes on over the course of 2 weeks, everytime he never returns my call, I always have to initiate contact. Finally I tell him it's bullshit, I need it fixed, I take the car back to him on Oct 8th. He has a look at it, and says he pulled two codes: C1160 and C1110. I get the car back, same issues, he says he will look into those codes, but says he might need the car to go back to the dealer for them to reset it. I tell him whatever needs to happen. After more pushing from my end, they set an appointment for Oct 16 at Richmond Nissan/Infiniti. I have emails and phone calls to prove this. They tell me to go ask for someone named Megan, and she knows what needs to be done. Mac says he's done a lot of work for this Dealer, and they are doing him a favour.

I put a temp plate on the car (insurance has expired at this point), and take the car out there. When I arrive, nobody in the joint knows who MDA is, nor does anyone named Megan work there. Nobody knows anything about the car or me. I phone MDA and Mac can't be reached, his worker can't help at all, and refuses to give me Mac's cell number.

I get lucky and the service guys are intrigued by the car and friendly, ask me what's up and I explain the issues, Applewoods Master Tech and Shop Foreman is nice enough to come out and look at the car. He hooks up his consult II and in 5 seconds looks perplexed and shocked. I ask him whats up, he says you drove the car like this? I say yeah. His words:

"Holy. You should not be driving this car like this".

He says the Yaw sensor and a number of parameters are not set, he resets the computer and the C1160 code goes away and my ABS light turns off. He scans again and gets the C1110 code. He says my ABS Module has an internal fault of some sort and usually just needs to be replaced.

I ask him some questions, he answers them, and then I ask him the critical one: "Was driving the car the way it was bad for it?" he says "absolutely, yes." And I asked if it could have caused the issue with the ABS module, he again said "Absolutely, yes." and goes on to say if the car wouldn't be allowed to leave their shop like this, as it's unsafe for the road.

Unable to do anything further I drive the car back home still fucked. Petrified at this point of an accident or issues. I finally get a hold of Mac the next week, I give him the rundown, he still refuses to fix the issue. I ask him if he's had any luck finding the part. He says his wrecked buddy hasn't had luck and the part is not available.

I phone one friend in Kamloops, he calls me 10 minutes later and tells me the wreckers in Richmond has two available. They are 500 bucks. I talk to Mac and tell him, he says he wont pay the for the part, that it's not his fault. This is November something at this point. I tell Mac fine, buy the fucking part I'll pay and I will just bring the car in and get it fixed.

THANKFULLY Mac once again never calls me. If he had I probably would have been a dumbass and taken the car back to him. I thought about it in the weeks following and I was like fuck that, I literally would rather pay more elsewhere to get it fixed, and never talk to MDA again.

Some footnotes to all of the above:

1. Mac's Shop rate is $120/hr. As far as I can tell he doesn't have any red seal tech's that work for him besides his GF who I have never seen work on anything. The two guys I always see working in the back are two kids, they seem very nice, but are young and no doubt not certified. This is bullshit that I pay what is a relatively high shop rate, and don't get proper people working on my car. Mac himself is not a tech, he's a welder.

2. Mac takes a lot of time off, even during Covid, rarely would I see him at the shop on fridays or mondays. And sometimes he doesn't come in for a week or more. This might not seem like a big deal, but when he is the hub of almost all communication, the fact that he's not there makes it a real pain in the ass to get information. Compounded by the fact that your car is probably there for weeks just for an oil change.

This information is coming out, because the experience with the VIP thread taught me keping it under wraps, is a mistake. At the same time, I dont endorse a lot of places, I'm typically not someone who chimes in to recommend parts, shops, or people, reason being I never want to be the reason someone goes somewhere and has a bad experience and then hates me for it. MDA was one of few exceptions to this because I really thought they were different. Which is why this is way more crushing to me to have to make this thread, but also why this is so important to me, cause I dont want people thinking I still endorse them.

Mac I'm sure at some point you will read this, I urge you to look closely at how you handle people's bad experiences, it says everything about you and your shop. At the same time, you've been doing this long enough that you should be able to prioritize work, and get stuff out in a timely manner and within a proper budget. I'll never bring my car back to you, but I hope you start to get this right and dont mess up too many other people's shit. I'm fortunate I can afford a hit like this, I know plenty of people who this might have been a nail in the coffin for them and the car.

TL;DR - Took my car to MDA for basic maintenance, paid $2k for probably $1k worth of work, and got my car back with dash lit up like a christmas tree and $4k worth of other shit fucked up. Avoid the place at all costs.

Spoiler!

twitchyzero · 01-08-2021, 07:07 AM

is $200 alignment for a heavily bagged suspension that unreasonable? yeah you provided some specs but they still have to confirm it

vehicle is also getting older now with all the mods they may have just been going at once but it definitely sounds like something was messed up in the process, i dont know this is just one side of the story

that said i would've ran the other way after seeing the xmas lights being presented as ready for pickup...and jesus by the delay/lack of replies makes it feel like i'm reading another dr. mike v. anthony espinosa thread. I get the feeling his 'contacts' to wrecker buddies never happened

trollface · 01-08-2021, 07:45 AM

Man this could have all gone away for $500 bucks.

anti-vip · 01-08-2021, 07:45 AM

Labour cost might be arguable, some stuff are either pain in the ass, seized or both but the run around and delay what gets me. Sucks to chase people around and not get to the bottom. tough luck man

JDMDreams · 01-08-2021, 07:58 AM

Good to know, not that I try to get much custom work done these days with the vi bois. I've always heard ppl recommending Mda.

PK-EK · 01-08-2021, 08:08 AM

I use to get my big jobs done by MDA when I still lived in BC (this was over ten years ago keep in mind)
before he started building "SEMA cars"
He installed my turbo Kit and made me a custom turbo back exhaust - the TIG welds on it aren't Instagram worthy, but its held up for a long time (made in 2010, still working now)
he could have made an extra hanger on it since the 3 inch stainless was so much heavier than stock. but I got this done after the fact.
when he made my exhaust he gave me the usual run around of "your O2 sensors where seized, so you have to buy new ones" typical upsell (I work in the automotive industry, so I've seen it all, and this wasn't so bad... at least he installed new sensors lol)

got my car back. once I took it home, noticed the side skirts were damaged from the hoist
He bladed his apprentice and he owned up to it right away and gave me cash back to get a new pair of skirts.

my experience with MDA was over 10 years ago, and back then he wasn't as big as he is now, and then he was just alright.
I can see how a bigger shop and more work would lead to lower quality workmanship

meme405 · 01-08-2021, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

that said i would've ran the other way after seeing the xmas lights being presented as ready for pickup...and jesus by the delay/lack of replies makes it feel like i'm reading another dr. mike v. anthony espinosa thread. I get the feeling his 'contacts' to wrecker buddies never happened

Oh it's not even a question that he never called anyone about the parts. I mean come on, you got a wrecker buddy, that can't find a part, yet I have a random friend who works in kamloops that literally found the part and price for me in less than a half hour.

Mac never had any intention of trying to right this wrong. That's exactly why my car was parked on the street, so that I had no opportunity to even have a glance at it before he dragged me into the office and made me pay. That way he got his money, and I had no recourse.

Like I said, i've been to MDA a bunch of times before, every other time the car is on the floor in the shop or out back where all the customer cars are parked. This one time when there is an issue the car is parked literally a block away from the shop across the street.

Something went wrong during the work, everyone was aware, Mac himself was aware. I even questioned him about it at one point during trying to get this resolved. Mac said he had no idea when I came to pick up the car there was lights on in the dash, he said "I didn't look at the car myself, the guys worked on it and parked it". And yet the invoice indicates that he did know there was an issue, and plays it off as if he told me about it, even though I will guarantee he did not tell me shit, not on the phone when he called me to tell me it was ready or at any time during the 10 minutes while I paid before he handed me back my keys.

bcedhk · 01-08-2021, 08:46 AM

That's why I don't deal with business owners or buyers on FB with photo of their pitbull and rot. A strong probability they are assholes or shitty owners.

RevYouUp · 01-08-2021, 08:57 AM

I remember leaving my Integra for them to install a JDM front end a couple years ago. My car was stuck there for at least a month when he said it’ll take a week. Was also charged “extra” on his quoted price. Never used them again afterwards, I’ll stick to G5.

bcrdukes · 01-08-2021, 10:45 AM

I'm just curious, but looking at the invoice, it looks like you needed service/maintenance work, and not fabrication. Why did you take your car to a fabrication shop, and not a regular shop like The Speed Syndicate or something?

trollface · 01-08-2021, 11:16 AM

I think a lot of places call themselves fab shops/machine shops now. As soon as they throw down one weld on anything they're fabricators.

GIZZ · 01-08-2021, 11:25 AM

Sorry to hear stories like this, I've heard a few over the years. As far as personal interactions, one time I looked at a car he had for sale, he seemed nice.

FX35/45? aren't those front bearings super easy to do? Have you considered having nissan or infiniti take a look at what's messes up now?

I work at another dealer. Even tho this isn't our brand If this showed up at our shop it would have been done same day. Maybe 2 days if some unforeseen issue. Although we re-ring a car in a day, I've seen other dealers keep a car for months for the same job.

bcrdukes · 01-08-2021, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trollface

I think a lot of places call themselves fab shops/machine shops now. As soon as they throw down one weld on anything they're fabricators.

Should the title be changed to "I took my car to MDA. I'd rather go to Guantanamo Bay" ?

ButterFingers · 01-08-2021, 12:06 PM

I remembering going there 3 years ago for a cracked firewall on my civic due to the clutch cable, costed around $200 in labour, the guy just cut a thick piece of metal and did 3 shitty tack welds.

Didn't bother with complaining, but you'd expect better welds for $200

entrax · 01-08-2021, 12:11 PM

just brainstorming...

what are the chances all of your christmas lights are due to a poorly installed hub/bearing. if it's anything similar to a G35, i remember having to make sure the sensor lines up with the hole in the knuckle, like there was a way to get the hub install in a way that the sensor doesn't see the teeth. i forget the details, it's been a few years

also, any shop that does work on a car that is not previously discussed AND approved is such a red flag.

underscore · 01-08-2021, 01:22 PM

The comments from the dealer seem weird to me too. Unless they did a wack job designing that system it seems odd that just driving the car would fry the ABS computer. Similarly not having ABS shouldn't make the car into some kind of death trap, you should just not have ABS. People survived for decades (and continue to) with no ABS and no issues.

GIZZ · 01-08-2021, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by entrax

just brainstorming...

what are the chances all of your christmas lights are due to a poorly installed hub/bearing. if it's anything similar to a G35, i remember having to make sure the sensor lines up with the hole in the knuckle, like there was a way to get the hub install in a way that the sensor doesn't see the teeth. i forget the details, it's been a few years

also, any shop that does work on a car that is not previously discussed AND approved is such a red flag.

I was also wondering if the bearing had the pickup built in and it was pressed in backwards. Then I just noticed his sig, it's a 2008 fx35. What sucks about this whole situation is that it's a bolt in hub, no special tools or press required. They would have gone out of their way with stupid to break an abs sensor, horrible.

trollface · 01-08-2021, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

Should the title be changed to "I took my car to MDA. I'd rather go to Guantanamo Bay" ?

G-bay sucks, man. But at least G-bay is free.

TopsyCrett · 01-08-2021, 01:51 PM

I have only dealt with MDA once, and it was for Exhaust welding work. I would definitely not deal with him for mechanical work, as you saw, he is not red seal certified.

Great fabricator, would only go to him for straight forward welding jobs. Nothing else.

I am sorry you had this experience. I definitely sympathize with you, talk about bill shock.

headhunt3r · 01-08-2021, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

I'm just curious, but looking at the invoice, it looks like you needed service/maintenance work, and not fabrication. Why did you take your car to a fabrication shop, and not a regular shop like The Speed Syndicate or something?

Totally agree on this. The work sounded like basic maintenance work, and you don't sound like somebody that would shy away from stealerships due to cost, so going to a 'custom fab shop' for this work seemed like a poor choice to begin with.

Also, given the current pandemic, it was a missed opportunity to say "avoid like COVID".

Thanks for sharing your experience with the shop though, it's always nice to hear feedback on shops around town.

fsy82 · 01-08-2021, 03:05 PM

Why dont you just take the vehicle to the dealer and be done with it. Why would you even want to take it back to him to finish the repair.

Great68 · 01-08-2021, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by underscore

The comments from the dealer seem weird to me too. Unless they did a wack job designing that system it seems odd that just driving the car would fry the ABS computer. Similarly not having ABS shouldn't make the car into some kind of death trap, you should just not have ABS. People survived for decades (and continue to) with no ABS and no issues.

Yeah, that seems dubious to me. It's pretty standard practice that if any component, sensor, or computer were to fail then the system should simply go fail-safe, it should never become unsafe to actually drive.

Qmx323 · 01-08-2021, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by underscore

The comments from the dealer seem weird to me too. Unless they did a wack job designing that system it seems odd that just driving the car would fry the ABS computer. Similarly not having ABS shouldn't make the car into some kind of death trap, you should just not have ABS. People survived for decades (and continue to) with no ABS and no issues.

I think the tech just meant the car came with ABS and if it comes into a branded dealership they would try to not let them drive off, in the event that they do co-incidentally get into a crash right after?

Would save them a potential lawsuit.

yray · 01-08-2021, 03:52 PM

whats with the customer supplied part is wrong line?

I thought MDA bought the CV?

meme405 · 01-08-2021, 03:58 PM

This particular computer does a lot more than I think some of you are realizing, its not just ABS, its the entire TCS and VDC system, including my steering angle, slip sensors, speed sensors, etc.

I did actually experience what the tech at applewood was talking about at one point, southbound getting onto the queensborough on that hard right hander, I got on the skinny pedal a little and I'm not sure what happened, I initially thought the car slipped a little, and because the car couldn't tell what was going on the TCS kicked in, except it failed and literally just locked one wheel and eventually just locked all the wheels in its weird stutter step. The car didn't stop stuttering my brakes and cutting power until I came to a halt, and restarted the car. This was on my way to MDA to try and get this sorted.

At the time I was confused as to what the car was doing, I still dont really understand, but needless to say its not just as simple as the systems just not being active like the ABS is, although that is a safety system, and if I were to get into an accident, or pulled over it would be a VI in itself.

As for people hypothesizing the reasons, the speed sensors plug directly into the computer that has failed. I'm thinking they did something stupid during that process, this is based on the fact they had trouble getting the sensors working again. Also someone mentioned double checking the sensors, I haven't physically, but a friend of mine did hook it up to his modus, and we drove around, all 4 sensors are properly reading continuously.

For the people talking about the cost and that stuff, only reason I added that is so people see, I didn't take the car to a "cheap" shop, and I certainly didn't handcuff MDA on the available time with the vehicle to do the job properly and make sure everything works. And I certainly didn't handcuff him with some hard quote that was too cheap for him to make money. Like I said initially I didn't get a quote, and when I received the $2000 bill I paid it, if that was the end of it I wouldn't have questioned it at all, the only reason this thread exists is that I paid $2k and still got my car back in arguably worse condition than it went into his shop with.

Finally the reasons I dont take my car to the dealer for servicing. To be honest, most everything done on the car is by myself at this point. I did the rear wheel bearings a year prior to trying the fronts. The only reason the car went to a shop this time, is because I physically couldn't get them out in my driveway on jackstands, I needed a lift and likely a puller. As to the choice of MDA vs elsewhere, it is because the car is so modified. A lot of dealers or shops dont understand the air system, or other modifications to the car, which means even just leaving it in their care, if they need to move the car around I risk them forgetting to air it up or whatever and causing damage. I also have received comments from a couple dealers in the past due to the engine bay being totally polished that they dont really want to work on the car, this is because even something simple like spilled oil could become a problem. For these reasons I tend to be more comfortable when shops have more experience with other modified vehicles, cause they understand some of the idiosyncrasies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yray

whats with the customer supplied part is wrong line?

I thought MDA bought the CV?

There was a CV boot in the box in the backseat of the car, unrelated to the repair at hand. Just a coincidence. They did buy the new axle and install. Far as I know nothing wrong there.

Spoiler!