^ yoda tax blew my mind once I started looking.
Ended up buy new and doing a factory order. Never thought I'd ever buy new especially considering I'm an auto tech.
I have access to close to cost price on toyota parts so was not considering any other makes.
People are asking for as much or more than new on used 4x4 toyotas with high milage.
Anything that seems okay priced ends up being a rebuild.

Toyota Tax is real... but there are many other good Trucks/SUV's to choose from. Everyone's financial situation is different, but I can't justify spending more than $10k on a trail rig because I know it is going to get beat up Lol. I could never wheel a new truck, would be cringing the whole time.

I ruled out Mitsubishi Trucks like the Monteros and Pajeros because I believe they are just not reliable enough to take the abuse of wheeling. Too many issues with their drivetrain, generation to generation .

A strong option is to import a Hilux, if you want to stay under $10k. Any one already landed here when I was looking, that is in good condition, was around $11-12k. You can always get lucky and find a good example Toyota for under $10k. Usually high mileage Land Cruisers etc. or the occasional good 4Runner.

I was looking at Suzuki XL7's aka Vitara's, as they are body on frame, have a stout V6 and have good aftermarket support for lifts. I ruled this out because I just hated how cheap the truck felt... and Suzuki Canada is no more.

Body on frame is usually a must for me, but I started looking at ZJ Grand Cherokees with the 4.0L and Infiniti QX4 / Pathfinders. Settled on a QX4 because I really like the VQ 3.5L. Unibody has it's downsides, but I do enjoy the car-like handling since it is on road most of the time. Aftermarket is limited on the R50 QX / Pathfinder platform, but most bases are covered. Lift, Locker, Subframe Drop.

If you want to go the American Route, most will be full-size options. Mid size options (if that is ideal for your situation) like Bronco II's, Grand Cherokees or Cherokees are getting harder and harder to find in good condition.

https://scontent.fcxh3-1.fna.fbcdn.n...8f&oe=60934272

Jealous of you guys with space to store camping gear, let alone trailers.

A lot of the Yoda guys says the QX4/Pathfinder aren't reliable on top of the limited aftermarket support. Can you speak a bit more into this?

I personally love the QX4 but everyone tells me to stay away.

Happy to ! Please let me know if you want a comprehensive list of my ownership expenses and mods I have done. It has been exactly 1 year of ownership and daily driving this month. I bought it Low KM and BONE stock.

Note: I love Toyotas. I just could not find a nice one under $6k, while I could find MANY nice QX4's under $6k. It was easy to find a low KM, rust free example in only a few days of searching... and I had options to choose from. If I found a rust free Hilux... guys would always want over $10k. Could not justify that.
Truth is, I bought mine from an old lady (can't you tell by the beige?), a Family Lawyer that serviced the truck at the dealer. She bought it new. Never been off road a day in it's life. If the equivalent was found in a Toyota, it would go for $30k plus and be on bring a trailer (as they should be... any old yotoa are cult classic favorites).

Speaking on the Bullet proof VQ35 V6:
- Timing Chain
- It is a V6 so a bit tight to service the spark plugs and alternator
- Butter smooth
- Mine shows no gasket leaks after 160,000 KM. My friend's Pathfinder VQ shows no leaks at 268,000 KM. We both have no records of gaskets being done and suspect they are original.
- Only common fault are the "Power Valve Screws" Google this issue. I am doing this right now, a process involving removing upper intake plenum to expose individual throttle plates to each runner and loctiting the screws that hold them in place. (Easy DIY job, these screws can back out)
- Stock MPG avg. 18-20. After Lift, 33" KO2's, I avg 15-16 MPG. I use 91 octane. Fill up costs me $80 ish. 400 KM on a tank if I am lucky. Is it a diesel? no. I have plenty of power though. 240 HP stock.

Everything else:
- They are built in Japan, and you can tell. Hardly any interior rattles and it is QUIET. Even on dirt roads.
- Auto Transmission is strong, usually requires a rebuild at 300,000 KM mark if it was not regularly serviced. I do my trans fluid religiously, and changed the filter / cleaned the transmission drain pan magnet. On top of this, it has a factory transmission cooler that does not have the same issue as the Xterras (See Strawberry Milkshare of Death Xterra issue).
- Rear LSD from factory is the same as the Xterra but a granny ratio. Re Shim if you want more locking power. I use LSD additive and it has been okay for me. Nothing beats a locker though.
- Front MacPherson suspension design is heavy duty, lower ball joints are strong unlike Toyota Counterparts.
- Unibody design has it's work arounds. I get it, most prefer a frame including myself. But instead of this feeling like a TRUCK, it more so feels like a Pajero Evolution. Think of it as a larger rally car, but with a solid axle rear end. This is how it feels Off Road. It is not a rock crawler, but something that is nimble for our smaller / tighter trails here in BC that have lots of roots and tight turns.
- ATTESA AWD Mode in all QX4 models post facelift. Good for Winter conditions and slick pavement. Same system as the R34 Skyline. True 4x4 mode is separate from this mode.

As for limited aftermarket support, All bases are covered. Instead of having 100's of options like Toyota, you have 3-4 solid options (in terms of brands). So what does this mean?

- Your lift is covered by brands like OME, ARB, Bilstein and Range Rover. (Yes, many including myself use OEM Range Rover springs rear and OME front. Google R50 Range Rover Spring Upgrade). I have never thought, "wow, I wish I had 100 more options to choose from."
- Front and Rear Lockers are covered. ARB if you are ballin, Lokka if you are on a budget.
- Steel bumpers? Rocky-Road, ARB, and our Local Gem Coastal Off Road BC makes front, rear bumpers, sliders etc. etc. All the defense you could ever need.
- Snorkel? (Doing this soon.) - All overseas Nissan Navarra with V6 works. Xterra Ones work with minor mods.
- Find a facelift model. Most here were undercoated and saved the truck from rust. Common areas are under the plastic overfenders. Strut tower rust affected early 96-00' models. My 01' has no rust anywhere.
- SF Creations makes lift spacers, and complete under chassis armor for the truck. https://sfcreation.com/ They are in Quebec.
- If you want to get really intense, do a front subframe drop. Kit is available online or make your own.
- If you want to get really really intense, do a front solid axle swap from the Nissan Patrol. Custom fab required, just like 4runner Landcruiser axle swaps.

These are the main bases and off road "starter pack" I all considered before I bought this truck. They ARE reliable, I would not have considered it otherwise because I needed my "daily driver off roader" to be exactly that, since the 3 other cars in the stable are projects and not always road ready.

Jeeps and Toyotas will always have so many options for aftermarket support, but damn, how many tactical dash mount phone holders do you need to choose from? LOL.

This guy on YouTube (linked below) realized our limited Options for the R50, and made it SO EASY to access info to common mods. Jimmy, you built an Accord, you know what this is like. It is the platform less chosen, and it is why it is special. Accord guys have their favorite and sought after mods. This is the same feeling.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXQ...LbMyjHGTcriRCQ

edit side note:
Toyota guys will get mad at this Lol. Since you love quirks and features, most of the interior amenities are similar to a land cruiser of the same vintage. Woodgrain??? Plush infiniti leather??? Front/Rear heated and tilting seats !!! Can't get that in a 4Runner.

https://scontent.fyvr1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...b3&oe=609660CF

not convinced pajeros are any less reliable than pathfinders, dat dakar pedigree

parts for sure will be way harder to source

for vitara i was considering a wide range of years/powertrains but the 4spd slushbox felt too archaic to me, so went the 3.2 route for the more modern toyota trans. Later years still feels a bit chintzy inside but no worse than similar era nissan/toyota and has all the features i want minus power memory seats, heated steering wheel and 360 cam but that's unrealistic for an older used car lol

Twitchy, I was talking about the earlier XL7's. The later year suzukis are nice I agree. I wanted earlier V6 Manual because body on frame:
https://cdn.jdpower.com/Models/400x2...uzuki-XL-7.jpg

I was looking at 2nd gen Pajero Diesels, but they have head cracking issues because coolant passages are too big. Common issue, which I have seen in the flesh.

2nd gen montero (USDM market) have the Gas V6. No thanks. 3rd gen Montero (USDM Market again) have the same V6 but updated. Still no thanks. Every one I checked out had issues (valves ticking, timing chain guides making insane noise, valve rockers cracked).

3rd gen Pajero with a diesel is ideal. But these are very heavy trucks and have rear independent suspension. Lift options are lift spacers and slightly longer springs, not ideal for the off roading I want to do. This was also entering Land Cruiser Diesel money territory, which I would take over a Pajero any day.

VQ's are used in many of Nissans race cars, and hell, go to any drift event and you'll see 350z's / G35's bouncing off limiter all day.

Here are three trucks I'd consider. All under $5k :

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/bnc...303715669.html

https://abbotsford.craigslist.org/ct...302970338.html

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/bnc...304100864.html

Another note, I totally agree with Underscore's decision. What if you have to abandon your truck overnight? Do you really want to leave your $20-60k Tacoma on a trail?

You can only prepare so much... and I know many of you who only go wheeling on a Sunday. What if you have work in the morning? My friend cracked his oil pan doing a water crossing at Sylvester (before he did any defense mods). I towed his QX4 to the trail head and we left it there overnight. Do we have a lot of spare parts on us? Yes. Did we have a damn oil pan? Nope. He had work the next morning so I drove him home. Didn't worry about his QX4 til we were both off on Monday evening and had the parts from Lordco by noon that day. He paid $2k for his QX.

I think Jeeps are also good alternatives to more expensive trucks. Some, like underscores 2nd gen Grand Cherokee, have yet to be hit with the over-hype tax... and they make great off roading rigs.

I test drove a 1st Gen ZJ Grand Cherokee... I loved it. It had 160,000 KM and the seller was asking $2,500. Dual Solid axles, Jeep pedigree.... and you can leave it on the trail overnight and not stress !

Isn't that XL7 just a GM truck? I want to say Envoy but I don't remember anymore.

^ Other way around, GM re-badged it as the Tracker and used their own engine. Suzuki Variant used a Mazda & Toyota derived V6. Transmission was Aisin I believe.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/1vnLivmwtAo/maxresdefault.jpg

http://www.autos.ca/news/images/01xl7_engine.jpg

^ very easy to work on.

Lastly, going the German route for sure will hurt the wallet. I get it, they are nice vehicles. Very luxurious. But you gotta remember, off roading is a lot of abuse on these vehicles. The only German off roader I would take out confidently, that has aftermarket support, surprisingly cheap to maintain, is a G wagon.

This is speaking from experience. My first camping rig was a W163 ML320. I loved the Mercedes 4WD tech, but much like Underscore, these electronic systems have their issues.

https://scontent.fyvr1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...70&oe=6096DC99


Served me well for 3 years til it got written off. But boy, even maintenance, always costed me triple than a Japanese or American truck... and I do things myself. I drove this thing every day while I was a full time student on a part-time salary. I didn't have to do many repairs, but when I did, that shit hurted.

Aftermarket support is really only good for Wranglers and Cherokees, most other Jeeps actually don't have much. But like you said, how many options do you really need for the exact same thing? You only need to buy 1. Not to mention that while the mass produced parts are cheaper, the vehicles they go on cost more. So even if you have to pay more for custom fab on your vehicle you're still saving money.

Oh I know I will, I've had a bit of experience with the 4.0 in my old XJ. This WJ is basically a combination of all my past Jeeps. I had a white 2000 XJ Sport with a 4.0, a red 1992 YJ that was super basic, and a gunmetal 2007 Grand Cherokee Laredo diesel. I've got 32s off my WK (which are JK take offs so dirt cheap) and a 2.5" eBay spacer lift in it for now. That'll do the job for quite a while, the only other things I might add are lunchbox lockers and a front reciever for a winch.

I had to leave my WK Grand Cherokee overnight and it was not fun. Long story short I'm lucky that my job is flexible and went back to winch it out the next day. At the time it was worth enough that I really didn't want to see it trashed and it was smack in the middle of the road not far from the start of the FSR so it wouldn't last long.

I had the opportunity to buy a mint 99 4Runner or a rough 97 TJ when I sold them for friends and family last fall, but the tax on Toyotas and Wranglers is steep. I sold those easily for $9,500 and $5,000 respectively. Meanwhile I bought my 1 owner Grand Cherokee for $2,200, with taxes and everything done to it I'll be into it for about $3,500. For another $300 I can have a limited slip front from a Volvo and a Lokka rear.

I saw a guy have to get his Wrangler helicoptered out last fall when it broke the steering box and a load of snow was supposed to be rolling in. Apparently that costs $6k/hr, which you'd pay to recover a $50k+ vehicle but it's gotta be a tough pill to swallow. With my current Jeep I'd just empty it out, close the doors, and come back in the spring to see what's left.

good memory, the outgoing crossover one was a rebadged canada-built equinox

the outgoing vitara was on a heavily modified GM theta platform but with a uniframe, different suspension and RWD underpinning

Where's the T rex?

It's great to see people pick up this hobby as someone that used to off road every other weekend in the spring and summer months.

My "truck" and off road experience is purely with Nissan's so I can speak to them.
TopsyCrett touched on several points and I agree with almost all of it.

In terms of affordability, I'd go with a Nissan hands down. The 4Runner's, older Taco's just simply (in my opinion) aren't worth what people are asking for them. You can get a Path/Xterra (I'd go with Xterra), do the necessary mods, repairs, and maintenance for sometimes less than the cost of a good condition, roughly rust free 4runner/Taco. Xterra prices however seem to be on the rise.

In terms of reliability, the older 3.3 (VG33) engines are quite bulletproof. They have timing belts just like the older Toyota engines so there's that to consider. They don't have common problems but distributors can go on those just like any older engine with a distributor. Maintenance is easy however #6 spark plug is quite the b*tch to replace.
All these engines leak from the rear main seal. Almost every one that comes through the shop does however only ~5% of them even drip enough to warrant replacing. Both my Path/Xterra had a rear main seal leak but never dripped and oil level was never a concern.

The 3.5 (VQ) is a solid engine. Much more power than the 3.3 it replaces however was slightly less reliable. Common issues such as leaks, ignition coils, occasional oil burners.

These Pathfinders/QX4's are not body on frame so they do have MacPherson strut front suspension but overall they are still quite capable off road. There are a variety of ways to lift them, ranging from body lifts (SF Creation), to Old Man Emu springs, to LR Defender rear springs (not range rover), front subframe drop 6 inch lifts. Depends on how severe you want to go.
The R50 generation can safely fit 31's (albeit on aftermarket wheels for backspacing, like Crager Soft 8's) with very minimal rubbing. On mine, I only had rubbing while revering fully cranked. If you are going to be lifting these, I recommend looking at WARN front hubs to replace the factory hubs. If you have the 00-04 Pathfinders with the electronic 4x4 system (dial), this won't be possible.

The Xterra's have no problem accommodating 31's and can go up to 33's stock. They are also body on frame. I absolutely loved mine and was very sad to see it go. If you can get one of these supercharged in good condition, they are quite the unicorn.

*For those wondering about the "pink milkshake of death", or more professionally called cross contamination, this only affected Path/X/Frontier 4.0L Automatic from 2005-2010. What do you do if you have one of these? Or are looking to buy one? Easy. If there are no signs of it having this problem (after test driving and checking fluid condition), replace the radiator with a new one (Nissan corrected the design 2011+), or bypass the radiator with a cooler.

I used to own a 98 Pathfinder years ago. It started off as just a beater to and fro work and as an extra car for my parents in the winter when it snowed.
It quickly turned into a project as I started modding it and experimenting at Triangle Beach. After several modifications I decided to start tackling some trails and FSR's.
Eventually it led me to dozens of off road journeys, mountains to climb, camp sites to reach, etc. My favorite trip is the Sts.Ailles FSR which takes you from Harrison Mills to Pemberton through the mountians - doable in 1 full day but really should be spread out over 2-3 to really enjoy.

It had a 1 inch body lift + OME heavy duty front/rear springs (2 inch lift), 31 inch Duratracs on Crager Soft 8, Bilstein 5125 on the rear, WARN front hubs.


It was then time for that to go and I moved onto a deal I simply couldn't pass on.
I got this Xterra for $500 with 320KM, full service history exclusively done at the dealer, always with OEM parts.
Did a bunch of repairs (heater core, valve cover gasket, replaced the sagging headliner, gave it a detail, and threw on GY Duratracs.
Unfortunately, I never got to off road it as it was written off 2 months after insuring it and 6 months into ownership due to a very frazzled motorist on an icy morning.



After that, I got my "attainable" dream truck - a unicorn. V8 Pathfinder.

I haven't done any off roading in this yet. I'll probably end up doing a few FSR's and camp with it but I've gotten out of off roading recently. Became too expensive of a hobby when you've got another car you want to do some mods to.




While it's nice to see more people get into off-roading, I have to repeats what's been said already.

1) Tell your friends and family where you are going in case something happens, especially if you are going alone (run out of gas, breakdown, no reception)

2) Avoid going alone

3) If you are on rough terrain, do NOT put your thumbs inside the steering wheel. ALWAYS on the outside unless you want broken fingers.

Happy off roading all!

^ Sorry my bad! I meant Land Rover.

I was able to squeeze in 32.8" KO2s however I had to trim the lower front bumper corner a tad and I used a rubber mallet to tap the lower rear part of the front fender. 31" will be a safe bet.

You can run Warn Hubs with the Electronic dial, you just cannot use "AUTO" Attesa mode until the Hubs are locked.

Xterra over QX4 any day. I just could not afford a 2nd Gen, and it was hard finding a rust-free 1st gen. Got impatient haha. I do like the Interior and overall build quality of the Japan made QX4 over the Mexico / US made 1st gen Xterra though.

whoa v8 pathfinder, are they more unicorn than armada/qx56 and 80?

You are correct. WARN front hubs on the later style will also require modification of the factory wheels to accommodate for the hubs.

There are plenty of Armada/QX56/80 on the road? They're were readily available for sale.

Finding a Canadian spec V8 Pathinder is hard.
They only sold them in Canada for 2008MY and it was only available as an option on top of an already top model LE trim. Combined with the recession in 2008, it had a low take rate.
Filter that down to rust free frame in black/dark grey and you'll find they are hard to locate.
There are far more in Alberta and Ontario than BC however they tend to be in rougher / rustier shape. They're family and toy haulers so you would expect them to have done hundreds of mountain ski trips, driving around in rougher winters than we get, etc.

This thread has made me want to go off roading again...
Twitchyzero - I love your set up! I should look into one of those hatch tents. Won't be going to Disneyland any time soon so it would be nice to do a staycation outside of the city and away from other people

the only sorta modern nissan i want

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/niss...-169677366.jpg



don't let the hilux/landcruiser guys see the following LUL

Dude you're a rockstar, thank you so much for this. I always loved the QX4 and them being so cheap now it just makes so much sense. The only reason I was looking at VW was because of TDI, it doesn't make sense for me to get another vehicle that just sits there until I want to go out and play I rather have it built as a family hauler that my wife can drive day to day.

toyota tax is getting out of hand, though some sucker is going to give them asking

https://abbotsford.craigslist.org/ct...304886617.html

been looking for a 2nd gen taco to replace my V8 4runner but will likely end up buying new also given the insane used prices

Buy a Ford and spend the difference on 10 helicopter haul-outs?

damn how did i overlook this suv/truck crossover

v8 with cyl-deactivation, t-case, optional rear locker

https://static.cargurus.com/images/s...7-640x480.jpeg

https://www.trailvoy.com/cdn-cgi/ima...ent.14949/full

^ Don't forget the Avalanche with the same features if you want something a bit more capable

https://www.musclecarsandtrucks.com/...s-1024x675.jpg

If you're willing to spend the money on Rotopax, they make a spare tire mount called the EZ Tire Kit that uses straps to wrap around the tire. See them a lot on jeeps and other vehicles with tailgate mounted spare tires.