Remains of 215 indigenous children found in Kamloops

[CivicBlues]

I guess we should cancel BC Day, Thanksgiving and Christmas pre-emptively now.

[yray]

Originally Posted by CRS

How does one move on without reconciliation?



Imagine someone from the government went and kidnapped your kids and then left them without basic necessities and they died. Buried them without your knowledge and then only decades later you find out about it.

Would you be good that the same government just saying "yeah, it happened, we recognize it, let's just move on since the past is the past"?

how far do you want to go with reconciliation?

Kick everyone non native out of the unceded land, which is basically all of Canada?

Pretty sure all the people that decided on these policies have either passed away or pretty close to dying. Should we take them to court?

[JDMDreams]

Yes just like how USA should be apologize for nuking Japan, and Japan should cancel the Olympics for what they did in Ww2

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

I guess we should cancel BC Day, Thanksgiving and Christmas pre-emptively now.

[68style]

My work meetings are a mess now, I’m sure most of you have surmised by now that I work for the feds in some capacity, but every manager now is is starting every single meeting with a 2 minute long spiel on what lands the office is on, or their home (!) and moment of silence for those we’ve lost etc etc etc…

I mean I’m sympathetic to the problem itself, but what’s the solution? Are any of these people giving up their colonial government jobs out of shame or embarrassment? All these people are so eager to guilt the shit out of everyone and act like they care or are an instrument of change, but to actually do something meaningful besides waste everyone’s time with contrived words… nay, won’t happen and never will.

I so badly wanted to ask my manager after some spiel she went on the other day if she has any plans of ceding her home in North Van just to watch her suddenly turn into a bubbling vat of excuses about limits and timeframes and what’s “reasonable” but gotta zip it right? lol

[JDMDreams]

Yea, that's been going on, it's pride month where's the spiel on that?

[CivicBlues]

Jesus that must be absolutely infuriating. Look I'm all for social justice and all, and think the whole anti-wokeness movement is a bit of a dogwhistle for racist cunts, but even I have limits. I work for a US company and after George Floyd it became uber-woke all of a sudden with constant mass emails about how they're supporting Black-owned businesses and Black employees. Then when the narrative (and heritage month) shifted to Anti-Asian attacks it turned to showing support for AAPI (Asian-American/Pacific Islander) owned business and Asian employees. It's never-ending saccharine BS. The fact that someone on the company payroll is being paid to write all this drivel and clog up thousands of inboxes is what boggles my mind.

[Manic!]

Natives will stop talking about it as soon as Christians stop talking about Jesus. The guy died almost 2000 years ago. Its like 24/7 for some people. Every meal every event a couple of hours min on Sunday. I could could understand talking about someone all the time if you were related or knew the guy but sooner or later you get over it. With Jesus people never get over it and they pass it on to there kids. Also look at all the buildings they built for him it's nuts. Even worse it's all tax free. What a waste.

[68style]

I get where you’re going with it, but Canada is one of the most agnostic countries in the world… USA would be a better target for that jab.

I don’t honestly want to spend all my time talking about something incessantly, maybe I’m too logical but I want solutions. It happened, so what do we do now? Talking helps somewhat with healing but then what?

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by 68style

I get where you’re going with it, but Canada is one of the most agnostic countries in the world… USA would be a better target for that jab.

I don’t honestly want to spend all my time talking about something incessantly, maybe I’m too logical but I want solutions. It happened, so what do we do now? Talking helps somewhat with healing but then what?

The guy has 2 major holidays plus Ontario and Alberta have public funded catholic school boards.

What we need to do is find all the bodies, give them a proper burial, find the people/ organizations responsible and hold them responsible. No person/organization should get away with killing thousands of children.


and this.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47134033

The female congregation dissolved in 2005 under Pope Benedict was the Community of St Jean, which was based in France, Alessandro Gisotti of the Vatican press office told CBS News.

In 2013, the Community of St Jean admitted that priests had behaved "in ways that went against chastity" with several women in the order, according to the French Roman Catholic newspaper La Croix.

In a separate case in India last year, a bishop was arrested over allegations that he raped a nun 13 times between 2014 and 2016.

Bishop Franco Mulakkal, who headed the diocese in Jalandhar in the northern state of Punjab, has denied the accusations.

In Chile, reports of abuse of nuns carried out by priests led the Vatican to launch an investigation last year. The women were reportedly removed from the order after highlighting the abuse.

Last year, the Associated Press news agency reported cases of abuse in Italy and Africa.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by Manic!

Natives will stop talking about it as soon as Christians stop talking about Jesus. The guy died almost 2000 years ago. Its like 24/7 for some people. Every meal every event a couple of hours min on Sunday. I could could understand talking about someone all the time if you were related or knew the guy but sooner or later you get over it. With Jesus people never get over it and they pass it on to there kids. Also look at all the buildings they built for him it's nuts. Even worse it's all tax free. What a waste.

You could say that about basically any religion. It's also not really correlated to people speaking about traumas and atrocities, compared to, um, a guy.

Originally Posted by yray

how far do you want to go with reconciliation?

Kick everyone non native out of the unceded land, which is basically all of Canada?

Pretty sure all the people that decided on these policies have either passed away or pretty close to dying. Should we take them to court?

I get what both you and CRS are saying, and I'm pretty sure we could all agree we could meet somewhere in the middle.
Social programs for indigenous youth, with input from indigenous elders
Scholarships
Respecting their unceded territory, or at least working in conjunction with them for environmental projects
Including them as a branch of Canadian government.
Just a few examples.

[Hondaracer]

I’m open to being engaged with stuff like this but when you want to start cancelling holidays and drag it into every little thing, sorry but ya lose me.

Much like 68Style I work for a giant that wants to portray the “woke” image. My login screen changed to a bunch of native drawings and native language/wording about reconciliation after the first bodies were found when in the entire time I’ve worked for this company I’ve never seen the login screen change once.

The way companies do it seems so incredibly insincere it pretty much has the opposite effect as they want lol..I don’t need to hear my manager talk about some reconciliation email he received that a team of HR people formulated after listening to the radio etc. And actual constructive discussion about the topic. It’s actually pretty fucking gross at the corporate level

[westopher]

Totally agree with that. It’s like the emails from airlines and banks. “We’re here for you during times of need in the covid 19 crisis.”
Fuck you, you are literally here for no one fucking ever. The entire business model is exploiting people and tax evasion.

[CRS]

Originally Posted by yray

how far do you want to go with reconciliation?

Kick everyone non native out of the unceded land, which is basically all of Canada?

Pretty sure all the people that decided on these policies have either passed away or pretty close to dying. Should we take them to court?

Honestly, I'm not sure how far I would want to go. I'm sure a compromise can be reached.

But you're clearly just no reconciliation and move on which is absolutely abhorrent.

[JDMDreams]

^ I'm pretty sure there has been reconciliation, I've personally heard from a native person that he received $200k for being in a residential school. I'm sure most of that money has been blown by now though in that case I would like reconciliation as I'm sure I'm related to some of the Chinese that built the railways here

[yray]

Originally Posted by CRS

Honestly, I'm not sure how far I would want to go. I'm sure a compromise can be reached.

But you're clearly just no reconciliation and move on which is absolutely abhorrent.

where the fuck did I say no reconciliation, it's been a whole fucking month of orange and speak out and fuck Canada... this is going on a bit long

and to be honest, what is reconciliation

natives get pst free, access to many welfare programs, reserve lands, fishing rights and income tax exemptions... all these program has a leg up on alot of Canadians, whether they chose to use it is up to them. I would agree more support is needed for natives in the middle of nowhere in Canada. However, I am tired of hearing the support is endangering their culture.

[JDMDreams]

^^ this, they literally have it handed to them. It's your choice whether you still want to blame others for your problems. Or work your way out of the stereotype. I literally hear immigrants swimming to the Canada with lint in their pockets and made something out of nothing, learning the Canadian culture and be positive members of society.

[Manic!]

......

[Manic!]

Similar to people who have been here for generations complaining they can't afford a house but you have immigrants who come here with very little money owning a house or 10 years.

[68style]

Originally Posted by yray

where the fuck did I say no reconciliation, it's been a whole fucking month of orange and speak out and fuck Canada... this is going on a bit long

and to be honest, what is reconciliation

natives get pst free, access to many welfare programs, reserve lands, fishing rights and income tax exemptions... all these program has a leg up on alot of Canadians, whether they chose to use it is up to them. I would agree more support is needed for natives in the middle of nowhere in Canada. However, I am tired of hearing the support is endangering their culture.

It's a bit more complicated than that... you have to live on a reservation to get most of those benefits... and reservations, if you've ever been to one, are fuckin unpleasant places for anyone to grow up in. It's no wonder anyone comes out of that environment a mess.

There is a lot of corruption at the band leader level too, that definitely grinds change to a halt in many circumstances... but the whole idea of reservations is isolating in itself... it's almost like a government funded homeless camp the way they treat so many of them. Ask anyone who lives in Kelowna if they ever dare set foot in Westbank... it's like the Compton of the interior.

Too much of the government just throwing money at the problem and then being like "Well... we gave you money, what else do you want?" and not really tacking the issue of independence or addiction or societal acceptance, etc. Part of where it all falls apart from a hypothetical standpoint is the entire idea of being inclusive and treating everyone the same doesn't jive with status and cultural preservation.

In a way, Quebec has the exact same issue... wanting to be both Canadian and French at the same time. It doesn't work, never has and never will...

[CRS]

Originally Posted by yray

where the fuck did I say no reconciliation, it's been a whole fucking month of orange and speak out and fuck Canada... this is going on a bit long

and to be honest, what is reconciliation

natives get pst free, access to many welfare programs, reserve lands, fishing rights and income tax exemptions... all these program has a leg up on alot of Canadians, whether they chose to use it is up to them. I would agree more support is needed for natives in the middle of nowhere in Canada. However, I am tired of hearing the support is endangering their culture.

Originally Posted by yray

all this research and reviving the history is great... recognizing past mistakes

If we are repeating the same mistakes now, shame on us as Canadians.

But there is a limit to reconciliation. changing school names, abstaining from celebrating Canada day... might as well start digging up Vancouver as it seems the whole city was a graveyard to the natives at some point in time?

Just recognize and move on, don't repeat the same mistakes.

Right about here.

[yray]

Originally Posted by CRS

Right about here.

recognition and telling the truth that once upon a time Canada fucked up is the most important part of reconciliation

[CRS]

Originally Posted by yray

recognition and telling the truth that once upon a time Canada fucked up is the most important part of reconciliation

Recognition and telling the truth is the start of reconciliation.

If it ends there, it's nothing but lip service.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by yray

where the fuck did I say no reconciliation, it's been a whole fucking month of orange and speak out and fuck Canada... this is going on a bit long

Been going on for a long, long time for them too but yeah, we all feel your pain of having to watch news stories about cultural genocide committed against these people. It's just so awful to hear about the suffering that other people went through for decades - it's not like it happened to you right? /s

Originally Posted by yray

and to be honest, what is reconciliation

natives get pst free, access to many welfare programs, reserve lands, fishing rights and income tax exemptions... all these program has a leg up on alot of Canadians, whether they chose to use it is up to them. I would agree more support is needed for natives in the middle of nowhere in Canada. However, I am tired of hearing the support is endangering their culture.

When the Nazis tried to exterminate the Jews and the western world let the Nazis get off to a head start and later felt bad about it they created a country out of nothing for the Jews and Germany makes it a point to talk about the shame of what they did in WW2. This is unlike in the US where people celebrate slavers and racists with their Confederate flags and statues of "losers".

We're just scratching the surface of the atrocities that our predecessors committed against First Nations people - it's only going to get worse as we start talking about it - way worse than Japanese internment camps and Chinese head taxes. The crimes of the past paved the way for the life we live today - even if you didn't do it yourself you still benefit from it so let's not get too worked up about what is a reparation tax.

If you wouldn't trade your life for their life and their life is a result of what we did to them maybe we should do something about levelling the playing field?

[yray]

Originally Posted by supafamous

Been going on for a long, long time for them too but yeah, we all feel your pain of having to watch news stories about cultural genocide committed against these people. It's just so awful to hear about the suffering that other people went through for decades - it's not like it happened to you right? /s



When the Nazis tried to exterminate the Jews and the western world let the Nazis get off to a head start and later felt bad about it they created a country out of nothing for the Jews and Germany makes it a point to talk about the shame of what they did in WW2. This is unlike in the US where people celebrate slavers and racists with their Confederate flags and statues of "losers".

We're just scratching the surface of the atrocities that our predecessors committed against First Nations people - it's only going to get worse as we start talking about it - way worse than Japanese internment camps and Chinese head taxes. The crimes of the past paved the way for the life we live today - even if you didn't do it yourself you still benefit from it so let's not get too worked up about what is a reparation tax.

If you wouldn't trade your life for their life and their life is a result of what we did to them maybe we should do something about levelling the playing field?

Thing with telling it constantly is paying lip service, it also waters down the seriousness of the situation.

Look at BLM, eventually it just became a full on free for all riot, did much come out of it?

Telling the truth, I support fully.
Changing school names, abstaining Canada day celebrations, not so much.

Yes, our education system could be better in integrating first nations history.

If we are willing to admit our wrongs, we should be proud, not a lot of nations can muster up the admit their own fuck ups.

Programs and support, I am not against it either. There needs to be better access and availability to those in need.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by supafamous

Been going on for a long, long time for them too but yeah, we all feel your pain of having to watch news stories about cultural genocide committed against these people. It's just so awful to hear about the suffering that other people went through for decades - it's not like it happened to you right? /s



When the Nazis tried to exterminate the Jews and the western world let the Nazis get off to a head start and later felt bad about it they created a country out of nothing for the Jews and Germany makes it a point to talk about the shame of what they did in WW2. This is unlike in the US where people celebrate slavers and racists with their Confederate flags and statues of "losers".

We're just scratching the surface of the atrocities that our predecessors committed against First Nations people - it's only going to get worse as we start talking about it - way worse than Japanese internment camps and Chinese head taxes. The crimes of the past paved the way for the life we live today - even if you didn't do it yourself you still benefit from it so let's not get too worked up about what is a reparation tax.

If you wouldn't trade your life for their life and their life is a result of what we did to them maybe we should do something about levelling the playing field?

Good thing the modern state of Israel worked out so well..