15 killed in an elementary school shooting texas

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Oh yea, a guy who’s been brooding his whole miserable life and kills his grandma and 20 4 year olds is going to DEFINITELY be turned off by the idea of waiting 7 days. Hell, make him wait 90 days. The outcome is the same.

The legal drinking age in Texas is 21. The legal age to buy an AR 15 is 18. It should not be harder to buy a beer than a gun.

[320icar]

Originally Posted by pastarocket

I disagree.

The issue is that the right to bear firearms is part of the US Constitution.

This is the Second Amendment:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

You cannot just overhaul a "system". It's not about any system.

This is the US Constitution. The document that created the US government, establishes US laws, and guarantees basic rights for American citizens.

Good luck trying to change the U.S. Constitution.

Do you know what the definition of ‘amendment’ is?

[pastarocket]

Here are some solutions that Biden has come up with so far. What are your thoughts on his actions on guns in the US?

-would like to hear people's feedback on what the POTUS is doing about guns.


https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/27/polit...ons/index.html

Here's what Biden has done on guns and what advocacy groups say he can still do without Congress

Action Biden has already taken on guns

Since taking office, the White House has unveiled several packages of executive actions to rein in so-called ghost guns, promote safe storage of firearms, bolster police forces and expand community violence intervention programs:

Ghost guns

Biden announced a new regulation to contain the use of so-called ghost guns, which are self-assembled firearms that do not have serial numbers and are difficult to track and regulate. Ghost gun kits can be bought online and the weapon can be assembled in as little as 30 minutes.

The rules require anyone purchasing a kit to undergo a background check and requires those selling the kits to mark components with a serial number. It also mandates firearm dealers add a serial number to ghost guns that have already been assembled.
Ghost guns make up a relatively small share of the guns recovered by law enforcement but officials say the weapons have become more common at crime scenes in recent years.

Promoting safe storage of firearms

Biden unveiled a new military and veteran suicide prevention strategy last year that includes promoting safe firearms storage and outlining best practices for firearm dealers.
The plan includes a federal focus on improving lethal means safety, which is a voluntary practice to reduce one's suicide risk by limiting access to objects that can be used to cause self-harm, including medications, firearms or sharp instruments.
The President directed the Department of Justice to announce a new rule clarifying the obligations firearm dealers have to make secure gun storage or safety devices available for purchase. Biden also directed the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to issue a best practices guide to all federal firearm dealers to remind them about steps they are legally required to take to keep communities safe.

Other Justice Department actions

Last summer, the Justice Department launched an anti-gun trafficking initiative focused on Chicago, Los Angeles, New York, the San Francisco Bay Area and Washington, DC, which are known corridors in which illegal guns are being trafficked and used in deadly shootings and other crimes. The goal of the strike forces is to better coordinate law enforcement agencies across jurisdictions to disrupt trafficking networks.

The Justice Department proposed to clarify the restrictions on stabilizing braces that transform a pistol into a short-barreled rifle. The makeshift short-barreled rifles were used in two mass shootings in Boulder, Colorado, and in Dayton, Ohio.
Biden directed the Justice Department to publish model "red flag" laws for states that allow the temporary removal of guns from people deemed at high risk of harming themselves or others.


Bolstering law enforcement and community violence intervention programs
The $1.9 trillion Covid relief law, or the American Rescue Plan, allocated $350 billion to states, local governments, territories and tribes. The administration says that funding is available for law enforcement purposes as well as to expand community violence intervention programs.

The White House in July also established the White House Community Violence Intervention Collaborative, which is a group that includes mayors, law enforcement and community violence intervention experts. The group says it is examining how to best use American Rescue Plan funding and other public funding to increase investments in "community violence intervention infrastructure."

"It is a basic accountability issue," Josh Horwitz, the co-director of the Center for Gun Violence Solutions at Johns Hopkins, told CNN.

This is what Biden could do more of according to advocacy groups.

Enforcement of existing "red flag" laws

Horwitz said the Biden administration could also prioritize funding to support the enforcement of extreme risk protection orders, which are also known as "red flag" law. The orders allow the temporary removal of guns from people deemed at high risk of harming themselves or others. He noted the effectiveness of the orders to prevent acts of violence depends completely on implementation and enforcement

[pastarocket]

Originally Posted by 320icar

Do you know what the definition of ‘amendment’ is?

My bad. Read my latest post above.

Actual actions on guns from Biden.

It's a good read.

[JD¹³]

"High capacity magazines" make no difference to the root of the problem. That's a catch phrase for people who don't understand much, they are not the caveat. We have mag capacity in Canada and all they are is a rivet or pin in an existing 30 to make it 5. I have plenty of them. Criminals don't follow laws (duh) so all one would have to do is take a drill and 10 seconds later they have a 30 round mag. Even if you've never done it changing a mag takes five seconds to figure out. You don't have to be John Wick on the reloads to keep a high fire rate pinned mag or not. The Vegas shooter proved that a disturbed criminal mind will find a way regardless of the trivial restrictions you put on the tools (bump stocks, dozen+ weapons pre-setup, piles of mags, etc).

It all boils down to culture and the social issues the US has. Canada has almost all the same firearms available and millions of owners but our culture surrounding them is entirely different. Lawful firearms owners in this country commit effectively no violent crime with them. Any meaningful change on gun violence in the US will take generations to fix. They're so far down the rabbit hole they can't see daylight anymore.

There's a lot I want to say about the role of the police in this particular incident. I'm shocked and disgusted. It should end the 'good guy with a gun' or 'vets at schools' debates immediately. They're fucking stupid to begin with and have no basis in reality. Arming teachers is even dumber. I'll speak more on this later.

[Presto]

Good reasons for not arming teachers

YouTube

[westopher]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Crazy that you guys offering the opposite opinion haven’t actually come up with any solutions that could implement change?

Are you illiterate?

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by Manic!

The legal drinking age in Texas is 21. The legal age to buy an AR 15 is 18. It should not be harder to buy a beer than a gun.

According to most sites, the median age of school shooters is 16, so the age thing while seemingly a no brainer doesn’t stop it

https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...mass-shooters/

[MarkyMark]

The truth is you could write out a fool proof plan guaranteed to lower the chance of mass shootings while at the same guaranteeing responsible gun owners can still keep their favorite hobby of shooting beer cans off a barb wire fence and these "responsible" gun owners would never support it.

It will always be "this is just the first step in losing our guns" and that's the end of it. They won't give an inch in fear of losing a mile.

[westopher]

I mean the goal isn’t just to stop school shootings, it’s reduce all mass shootings, or individual shootings.
Remember earlier in the year the kid that shot up the school had the gun purchased legally by their parents.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by JD¹³

"High capacity magazines" make no difference to the root of the problem. That's a catch phrase for people who don't understand much, they are not the caveat. We have mag capacity in Canada and all they are is a rivet or pin in an existing 30 to make it 5. I have plenty of them. Criminals don't follow laws (duh) so all one would have to do is take a drill and 10 seconds later they have a 30 round mag. Even if you've never done it changing a mag takes five seconds to figure out. You don't have to be John Wick on the reloads to keep a high fire rate pinned mag or not. The Vegas shooter proved that a disturbed criminal mind will find a way regardless of the trivial restrictions you put on the tools (bump stocks, dozen+ weapons pre-setup, piles of mags, etc).

It all boils down to culture and the social issues the US has. Canada has almost all the same firearms available and millions of owners but our culture surrounding them is entirely different. Lawful firearms owners in this country commit effectively no violent crime with them. Any meaningful change on gun violence in the US will take generations to fix. They're so far down the rabbit hole they can't see daylight anymore.

There's a lot I want to say about the role of the police in this particular incident. I'm shocked and disgusted. It should end the 'good guy with a gun' or 'vets at schools' debates immediately. They're fucking stupid to begin with and have no basis in reality. Arming teachers is even dumber. I'll speak more on this later.

Ehhhh come on..in Canada it’s no where near the accessibility as the states. You’d be hard pressed to find those large capacity mags even pinned here. Not to say it’s impossible by any means but someone would have to actively search for them and put some effort into it

I’ve watched some videos of gun shows in the states where there are literal STACKS of 50+ round magazines at sellers tables, then you’ve got the 9mm drum mags and other ultra high capacity that can be used in guns that use a pistol mag like JR Carbine etc.

I’m not professing to be any sort of expert on the matter but I’ve been a hunter and firearm user for most of my life and have been to many gun shows etc. in Canada and it’s like going to a chuck e cheese compared to these US gun shows in terms of what’s available

You don’t think the ability to fire literally hundreds of rounds without changing the magazine has an impact on these shootings?

[320icar]

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

The truth is you could write out a fool proof plan guaranteed to lower the chance of mass shootings while at the same guaranteeing responsible gun owners can still keep their favorite hobby of shooting beer cans off a barb wire fence and these "responsible" gun owners would never support it.

It will always be "this is just the first step in losing our guns" and that's the end of it. They won't give an inch in fear of losing a mile.

And they’re willing to sell their children lives for that right

[westopher]

With that statement you clearly understand limiting access lowers the likelihood of these events happening.

[320icar]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Ehhhh come on..in Canada it’s no where near the accessibility as the states. You’d be hard pressed to find those large capacity mags even pinned here. Not to say it’s impossible by any means but someone would have to actively search for them and put some effort into it

I’ve watched some videos of gun shows in the states where there are literal STACKS of 50+ round magazines at sellers tables, then you’ve got the 9mm drum mags and other ultra high capacity that can be used in guns that use a pistol mag like JR Carbine etc.

I’m not professing to be any sort of expert on the matter but I’ve been a hunter and firearm user for most of my life and have been to many gun shows etc. in Canada and it’s like going to a chuck e cheese compared to these US gun shows in terms of what’s available

I feel like you’re proving our point dude. America needs firearm regulation.

[Great68]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

doesn’t stop it

This is your problem, focusing on "stopping it".

A measure like that undisputedly makes it harder, in some amount, than it currently is. And that's where they need to be going with things.

[underscore]

16 year olds will have far more connections to 18 year olds than 21+ year olds though. You do understand that there's no single fix that will instantly stop all shootings right? The goal is to take many small steps to reduce the frequency of these incidents over time.

Originally Posted by JD¹³

There's a lot I want to say about the role of the police in this particular incident. I'm shocked and disgusted. It should end the 'good guy with a gun' or 'vets at schools' debates immediately.

I hope you're not going to be too hard on the police. Do you have any idea how dangerous it is to try and stop someone from murdering children and teachers? They could be shot!

/sarcasm in case anyone doesn't get it.

[Hondaracer]

Again, not saying any of that won’t help. My point is, it won’t happen. I think as well like I’ve already mentioned the prevalence of these things makes it VERY hard to limit access to even if they did have the will to make meaningful change.

When I was in Vegas for my 30th bday some years back I went to battlefield Vegas. As part of the experience a guy picked us up in a military humvee. I got to talking to him as we weee cruising down the strip in a topless ex military humvee and he told me was a former marine etc.

I asked what’s it like living in Vegas, he’s like “I ducking hate Vegas, but where I grew up in California I couldn’t own the guns I wanted, so here I am”

Dat culture

[pastarocket]

What are your thoughts on Biden's proposed solutions to gun violence?

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/27/polit...ons/index.html

Here's what Biden has done on guns and what advocacy groups say he can still do without Congress.

POTUS has the power of executive orders that do not need congressional approval.

[underscore]

Oh I know it won't happen, Sandy Hook made it very clear America will never do jack shit. Hell they can't even be bothered to require manufacturers to label their food properly to ensure it's safe for everyone to eat.

re: magazine sizes - yes you can just remove the pin from some of them, but it still limits what options you can legally get because I doubt every manufacturer will bother to make pinned versions to export to Canada. Having to change magazines is how a shooter in Canada was stopped so I can understand the source of that law too.

[westopher]

Link doesn’t work, but I’ll eat my hat if he does anything.

[pastarocket]

Originally Posted by westopher

Link doesn’t work, but I’ll eat my hat if he does anything.

Try this CNN link:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/27/polit...ons/index.html

Here's what Biden has done on guns and what advocacy groups say he can still do without Congress

[Great68]

Originally Posted by underscore

1

I hope you're not going to be too hard on the police. Do you have any idea how dangerous it is to try and stop someone from murdering children and teachers? They could be shot!

/sarcasm in case anyone doesn't get it.

This isn't the first case of useless police in a school shooting either.

Remember Parkland and that armed campus sheriff who was actually on campus when the shooting started, and just stood outside like a coward during the whole thing?

[320icar]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

When I was in Vegas for my 30th bday some years back I went to battlefield Vegas. As part of the experience a guy picked us up in a military humvee. I got to talking to him as we weee cruising down the strip in a topless ex military humvee and he told me was a former marine

We did the same about 10 years ago for my brothers bachelor. The big group of us spending a few hundred each, they threw in so many extras. For anyone who likes firearms but have never gone to an American shooting range, holy F you are missing out. It’s… incomparable to anything I’ve experienced.

Pm me if you want an old pic of me

[Hondaracer]

Yea i spent about $700 there

FN SCAR, M60, M249, 50 Cal Barret, good times lol

$30 a round for that Barret, but everyone stops to watch you shoot it and it feels like a fucking car accident in those booths

[68style]

There was an actual retired cop (not just some security guard tourist) at the grocery store in Buffalo, no effect. It's crazy for these people to say that's what they need.

It's also kinda crazy that they need an armed retired cop at a grocery store... but I digress.