Car Sales - Job Change - Advice needed

[Badhobz]

Ugh get in line. I’d give up my manager job to be a longshore too.

But you gotta know somebody who’s already a longshore to get the application and then wait for another 10 years to move up in seniority to stabilize.

[punkwax]

Originally Posted by westopher

This thread is relevant to my interests.
I too am thinking about getting into a sales job, albeit, also at a small paycut. My reasoning is from the same place. I come home very stressed and unhappy often. I’m very passionate about what I do, and very proud of it and certainly won’t feel the same after the change, however, I’m inundated with stress all day, every day, as it’s so volatile with staffing, profit margins, etc.
I don’t think sales will be a breeze, but I’d be stepping into accounts that exist and trying to grow them, which I think won’t be all that difficult being that it’s products I know lots about, and most often am quite passionate about.
Not being the boss will be very difficult for me, however, will take a massive chunk of stress off.
Lots of good advice so far in this thread. I’m not the sole breadwinner, as me and my wife make approximately the same, however I’d be willing to take less at the possibility of being more pleasant to be around for my wife and daughter. That said, being that I run things, it’s also on me that work is stressful to a point. I need to decide if I have the skill and tools at my disposal to make it easier.

Originally Posted by westopher

That’s the difference. You work a shit job and get to buy a house, a new car every 5 years, vacation to Hawaii every year, have ZERO emails, texts, etc to answer when you go home from your 9-5 that’s a very different lifestyle than being expected to answer whenever someone needs it, knowing full well you can’t move into a bigger home unless mom and dad give you hundreds of grand towards it.
Fuck the desire to bust ass to scrape by. If it’s just going to go OK financially, why expect someone to commit their existence to it.
It’s not about being softer, it’s about being smarter.
That said, as long as I get sundays off for cars and coffee, get me the training to be your gantry operator for 6 figures and a 4 day work week and I’m there.

Sales manager with 20+ years of experience chiming in.. I’ve dealt with the stress of managing/being held accountable for plenty of direct reports across multiple branches expected to exceed targets while balancing P+L, hiring/firing, scheduling, training, inventory etc. it does take a toll on you.

The stress will be different but the pressure to perform in sales is real. Especially if you’re looking to join a large corporation. My mood at home has also been impacted depending on how well the month/quarter is going or if I lost a major project to a competitor to the point where now I focus a lot more on my family and have told my boss straight up that I’m not prioritizing work first as I had in my 20’s and 30’s to get where I am today. Now I make a point to help pack lunches, get the kids off to school etc. before working out for my own personal well being. Then I’ll hit the desk by 9AM, don’t know what a lunch break is and find myself replying to emails as late as 10-11PM at times. So if you think that will stop, it won’t, unless you can completely unplug and keep your phone separate from work. I don’t always have to reply so late, but often choose to because it’ll be one less thing to deal with tomorrow. The work never ends for me so if I can reply quickly and take one more thing off my plate I’ll do it.

^I do this around home when I’m not travelling for work by the way.. I also have expectations to visit clients outside of the lower mainland as often as I can. Then we’re not talking too many hours away from the family in a day, it’s always several days if not the whole week that I’ll be away.

Managing and looking to grow existing accounts is not as easy as you might think as well. Having confidence in your ability is great, but even if you’re the best at what you do, your clients can choose other products for reasons x, y and z. Even if they’d prefer to give you the business, sometimes they just can’t based on variables such as budget, needs etc. and while you still need to spend time to fight for that business, you also have to accept when it doesn’t go your way.

All that said and despite not knowing what your current opportunity is, the chef life isn’t easy with the ridiculous hours involved and it seems you’d benefit from taking a break from that overall stress. FWIW, I say go for it as it seems there isn’t a lot of risk overall financially if you did.

Also, if you ever need advice from a sales perspective, I’m a PM away.

[westopher]

Thanks man, that's all very helpful. I know that based on my personality, I'm not going to shut off when 5pm hits. As far as compensation, base salary is in my safe range, and commission is gravy, however, my job security now is literally 100/10, and I know that if I'm not making commission, I probably won't have a job for long. As far as I'm concerned I probably have the BEST chef job in Vancouver. Food I can be proud of, decent hours, an owner that I truly consider a friend and who treats me as such, but that said, I can't be 50 on a 35 degree line running around and chucking pans. It's a youngn's game. If I left this, the chef life is 100%, no questions, over, and it's gotta end sometime, I just don't know if it's now.

[inv4zn]

I think one thing to fully consider, is that most people, regardless of the job/position, will be dealing with some negatives. The perfect job is a unicorn, and regardless of what you do, it will always come with some negatives.

[mikemhg]

Originally Posted by trollface

The main difference is when my folks worked shit jobs, they could still afford a house and car, raise a family. You do the same now, and you're in abject poverty.

The normal standard of living line was much lower and much easier to achieve. I think a lot of ppl have come to the conclusion that busting your ass and doing the bare minimum will net you the same short term result, so why bother.

When houses are un-obtainable, I think ppl have started to gravitate towards instant gratification via material purchases. This is fueled by Social media as it has made it extremely easy to see other ppl's highlights. I've never seen that many people with 25k Rolexes on the bus in HK.

Give me that dopamine injection.

100k used to some mythical number that means you're doing pretty well. Today, 100k single income means you are qualified for a 1bed room apartment next to Highway.

This is a great point.

[mikemhg]

Originally Posted by westopher

Thanks man, that's all very helpful. I know that based on my personality, I'm not going to shut off when 5pm hits. As far as compensation, base salary is in my safe range, and commission is gravy, however, my job security now is literally 100/10, and I know that if I'm not making commission, I probably won't have a job for long. As far as I'm concerned I probably have the BEST chef job in Vancouver. Food I can be proud of, decent hours, an owner that I truly consider a friend and who treats me as such, but that said, I can't be 50 on a 35 degree line running around and chucking pans. It's a youngn's game. If I left this, the chef life is 100%, no questions, over, and it's gotta end sometime, I just don't know if it's now.

Seems like a waste to throwaway talent within the culinary industry like that. I suppose you couldn't find a way to remain in the industry doing something else?

It's quite interesting to see where the restaurant industry will be in 5-10 years from now if more folks are finding they can't keep staff or turn profit margins. What will happen?

I already see it changing on places like the Sunshine Coast, more restaurant owners are pivoting to food trucks or pop-up spots as opposed to a dedicated brick and mortar establishment due to rent and staffing headaches.

[bcrdukes]

A good friend of mine was also a chef in Vancouver and went through what westopher is thinking of/going through. Went into a retail sales role for a tech company (you guys can guess - company is the name of a fruit and the first letter of the alphabet) and is doing a lot better financially and coming home a lot happier.

I met up with him earlier last month when I was in Vancouver and I asked if he'd ever go back into the restaurant industry, and it was a hard no. Despite him saying that the job doesn't appear to be glamorous on the outside, he gave zero fucks and I've never seen him happier. I actually get to see him now as opposed to before which was impossible.

[Klobbersaurus]

Originally Posted by Gerbs

How much is insurance on the island? The younger folks in the early 20's to mid 20's moved to Van recently and they kept their insurance on the island, apparently it's half off even with accidents?

my xterra is about 800 a year and my prius is 700 a year, my xterra and protege at the time was about $1000 more for each vehicle

you have to be careful if your keeping your island insurance in vancouver because if your in an accident while your working/living in vancouver, you might not have coverage because vancouver is a different zone than the island

[GLOW]

i don't know anything about the food industry, but if you don't want to be a chef, can you transition in to restaurant general manager or something similar?

i'm just drawing on the analogy of someone in the trades on the tools moving in to the office when they can no longer be on the tools.

it would build upon existing experience and evolve one's career. if one's position is bulletproof, but only up to a certain age, then i'm planning my next move before i "age out" of my current position.

software engineer is also a young man's game. when i got laid off i took it as an opportunity to see where my path would lead me and realized i didn't want to be coding in to middle and then old age, so at that time i was looking in to business dev or project management. eventually i went down a diff path but in the end it's still career planning at some level...though i was probably a little too basic in my thinking...i didn't have friend/family or RS wisdom to guide me at that time

[westopher]

I'd literally rather jump off the lions gate bridge than be a GM. All the stress of a chef job as far as staffing, removes the creative aspect, and no pay bump in most cases. GM is very lateral to chef as far as pay and hierarchy. I appreciate what you mean though, it just isn't that way per say compared to the tools/office regard. You're still going to be running as a GM, unless you are an operations manager in a corporate setting.
Funny thing though, even though you're higher up the ladder, in that corporate setting you really are implementing much more than getting to make the decisions of what to implement.
Ideally this change wouldn't have been the one. I'd be teaching at VCC, but unfortunately, I didn't go to culinary school, so I'd need to at least get my red seal, which is frustrating, because people with red seals work for me and learn the things school didn't prepare them for.

[TOS'd]

Originally Posted by westopher

I'd be [in a Higher position job], but unfortunately, I didn't go to [a specific school], so I'd need to at least get my [Cert./Designation/Degree/Masters], which is frustrating, because people with [Cert./Designation/Degree/Masters] work for me and learn the things school didn't prepare them for.

Also applies to many careers with some sort of profession designation, I see this way too often.

[freakshow]

Originally Posted by westopher

Ideally this change wouldn't have been the one. I'd be teaching at VCC, but unfortunately, I didn't go to culinary school, so I'd need to at least get my red seal, which is frustrating, because people with red seals work for me and learn the things school didn't prepare them for.

My wife has been in fine dining since early 2000's. She took an instructor position at VCC when our first son was born (2017). Trust me, it's completely worth it if a red seal is the only thing you need. I'm not a chef, but I'd be happy to answer any questions since i've seen her go through everything, just PM me.

[westopher]

Hey I definitely will reach out. I wonder if your wife and I have ever crossed paths?

[Badhobz]

both of you guys must eat very very well

now tell me where to find the best and most affordable prime rib (costco wants 80 bucks for a 3 rib prime rib)

[westopher]

Just remember there is no such thing as cheap food
You pay for the cost
You pay for it with your body
Someone else paid for it with unfair labour practices

Please pick the top one of you can afford it.

[bcrdukes]

Originally Posted by Badhobz

both of you guys must eat very very well

now tell me where to find the best and most affordable prime rib (costco wants 80 bucks for a 3 rib prime rib)

This is often the perception but like westopher said, someone needs to pay for it in one way or another either through monetary means or physically.

Working in a restaurant is tough on the body and you get very little time to enjoy whatever food you are eating. That and some restaurants don't always cover staff meals and as a staffer, you need to pay for it. You're basically scarfing it down and getting back to work.

My aunt and uncle toughed it out owning and working in their own restaurant for 35 years and they are broken. I barely lasted a year at McDonald's.

[roastpuff]

Originally Posted by Badhobz

both of you guys must eat very very well

now tell me where to find the best and most affordable prime rib (costco wants 80 bucks for a 3 rib prime rib)

To the second part of your question, look at a meat wholesaler - one close to your work would be Ferry Market I would think. Walk in and practice your Canto and ask them for their pricing on prime rib.

[SSM_DC5]

Originally Posted by westopher

.... I wonder if your wife and I have ever crossed paths?

[Gerbs]

Originally Posted by Badhobz

im just thinking about our parents and how pretty much all of them did shit ass jobs they hated but i never heard a peep about job satisfaction growing up. Its a job, you do it, you get paid and you go home. Classic example; my mom ironed shirts for 5-10 cents a piece growing up. in a non a/c sweat shop close to hastings st. through that kind of insanity she put food on the table and paid the mortgage until she was able to find better work.
.

Haha, I remember counting those white / pink slips of paper that my mom trades in for 5 to 10 cents a piece. We still have a ton of leftover TNA / Lulu raw materials from the early 2000's. She also worked by east hastings / clark area.

Originally Posted by trollface

.

100k used to some mythical number that means you're doing pretty well. Today, 100k single income means you are qualified for a 1bed room apartment next to Highway.

I agree, there's a lack of incentives to do more beyond $100K CAD these days. If I make $120 - 150K+ gross in today's market, I get to live the same quality of life as someone got into housing in 2011 to 2015 or gifted a fat DP. That's a 1br or 2br Condo and MAYBE a $40K car, some eating out, travelling and savings.

It's really hard to justify working in shitty WLB balance for that extra money. At $85 - 100K, most jobs can be done in < 20hours / week, WFH, and relatively stable job despite basic performance. The jump to $110 - $150k on average requires a massive increase in stress. Need to worry about performance and management duties so your job doesn't feel as stable.

For the last year, I'd work past 5PM to 6PM. More often than not I'd work at 10PM to 12AM to "catch up" for the next day so you have less to do, almost always on Sundays and sometimes Fridays. You start getting out of shape because all I constantly think about is work and how I can justify not working out today because I have deadlines for tomorrow. As punk mentioned, you're likely in charge of results. Need to review monthly financials, financing requirements, inventory, hiring, operational efficiency, strategic initiatives. So if the company is not performing you have to worry about how to fix this or having to deal with layoffs. If you can't solve issues you start wondering if you might lose your job so you have to plan the next move on your mind.

All that extra stress for the potential to upgrade from a 1BR to a 2BR in the suburbs, plus upgrade your old $40K car to a $50K EV / Toyota Hybrid, or extra savings.

It's not worth it for most people imo. My main justification for working a shitty WLB is the extra cash will help me retire earlier. Otherwise it's better to work a lower stress job so that you can extend your working career and avoid burnout.

[bomberR17]

Not only that, the progressive income tax rate really stops your motivation to do more especially in commission based role.

[trollface]

Explain? ^

You're still making more, there is no real way of getting around income tax.

[inv4zn]

Originally Posted by bomberR17

Not only that, the progressive income tax rate really stops your motivation to do more especially in commission based role.

Oh God, I hope you don't say "I'll make less money because I get taxed more".

[Gerbs]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

I barely lasted a year at McDonald's.

I loved working there in highschool, you meet all the other highschoolers. Luckily I got put in the front, the kids in the back had their arms burnt from the grill and fryer.

I always jam packed the fries and loaded up the mcflurries as much as I can for everyone who came to the 41st and Vic location

Originally Posted by inv4zn

Oh God, I hope you don't say "I'll make less money because I get taxed more".

An entire department used to say this when I worked at the casino. I don't wanna work overtime because I'll get taxed more! When they get a fat year end tax return, they think it's a random lottery.

[MarkyMark]

I've met so many people that believe if they make a certain amount that pushes them into the next tax bracket then all of their income is taxed at that rate and they get fucked.

[bomberR17]

Originally Posted by trollface

Explain? ^

You're still making more, there is no real way of getting around income tax.

True, you still make more but don't get to keep much. Sometimes we help out the junior coworkers and pass them the deal and take a referral.

For me, It'll take some tax planning though. Like now, housing market is tanking. If I can push deals to next year, I'll do that as my income probably be less.