Lotus Emira

[Gerbs]

https://www.lotuscars.com/en-CA/emira

Curious what everyone's thoughts on this car? Seems like the best value at the $105 - 120K price range for a 6 speed sports car with warranty in the modern market.

My friend said he's on the waitlist and it's 2 years wait at the moment. Any other cars you guys would get in this range?

[bcrdukes]

Are we comparing apples to apples (electric to electric) here or against ICE cars? [Edit: I stand corrected - the Emira is NOT the electric car I was thinking about]

Highly recommend getting the vehicle tracker. I'd hate for anyone to have the car stolen and sold in Dubai.

[Badhobz]

I love the looks, but im worried about a few things with it.

1) reliability is always questionable with Lotus. Even if they plug in toyota engines, there's electronic crap that goes wrong, build quality is worrying and the overall longevity isnt great.

2) i got a feeling lotus might pull out of the NA market given how low volumes and exchange rate isnt in their favor. They arent rich by any means so i dont know how long they can weather this storm. if and when they depart, GG to all the owners holding the bag.

3) performance is meh. 4.2/4.3 0-60 is okay, but this is suppose to be a true sports car and if youre paying base 911 money, it doesnt seem ultra competitive vs the 911.

[bomberR17]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

Are we comparing apples to apples (electric to electric) here or against ICE cars?

Highly recommend getting the vehicle tracker. I'd hate for anyone to have the car stolen and sold in Dubai.

The Emira is not an electric car. Has a supercharged V6 or turbo I4. Surprised they didn't put a hybrid system in.

[Traum]

The Cayman GTS 4.0 would be the natural direct competitor against the Emira in every regard -- MR, similar weight, similar hp/tq.

I would pick the Porsche over the Lotus all day, everyday because I am a Porsche fanboi, and I trust that the Porsche would be more solidly built. But the Emira is certainly the more eye-catching car.

What I am not sure is -- which engine would be the more enjoyable one to pick? On paper, the Toyota V6 is a touch faster, and I am going to guess/bet that it will also be the more reliable engine. But of course the AMG 4-banger is very attractive too, at least in terms of output.

Originally Posted by Gerbs

https://www.lotuscars.com/en-CA/emira

Curious what everyone's thoughts on this car? Seems like the best value at the $105 - 120K price range for a 6 speed sports car with warranty in the modern market.

My friend said he's on the waitlist and it's 2 years wait at the moment. Any other cars you guys would get in this range?

[dark0821]

But thats the thing...

A brand new customer can walk in Lotus to spec the car.

A brand new customer can walk in Porsche and told to GTFO if you wanna order a base 911...

[dark0821]

Originally Posted by Traum

But of course the AMG 4-banger is very attractive too, at least in terms of output.

I thought the AMG is paddle only... and the V6 is the only one with the manual option or am i smoking something good.

[68style]

I think I'd rather spend $150k or so on a used NSX that's much faster than $120k + whatever on a brand new Lotus that's slower and way less reliable.

Or get a 911.

[bcrdukes]

Originally Posted by bomberR17

The Emira is not an electric car. Has a supercharged V6 or turbo I4. Surprised they didn't put a hybrid system in.

I stand corrected. Thank you. I confused this with their electric offering.

[Traum]

I don't think it is that bad? You are politely told to GTFO if you want to order any of the GT cars, but if you are only planning to get their regular cars, I think they would still gladly take your deposit money. It's just that it is going to be a 12 - 24 month wait for the Boxster / Cayman / 911, and there may or may not be allocations for the base model.

Originally Posted by dark0821

But thats the thing...

A brand new customer can walk in Lotus to spec the car.

A brand new customer can walk in Porsche and told to GTFO if you wanna order a base 911...

[Badhobz]

ive been eyeing that porsche monthly rental program. its not that expensive, and it makes a lot of sense to pay 3-4k a month for 2-3 months out of the year when you actually have good driving weather. Plus they take care of all the maintenance and crap, you just gotta pay for gas.

https://www.porsche.com/canada/en/ac...edrive/rental/

I was going to borrow a 911 and take it down to california along highway 1 instead of beating up my own ratrolla this summer.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by Traum

The Cayman GTS 4.0 would be the natural direct competitor against the Emira in every regard -- MR, similar weight, similar hp/tq.

I would pick the Porsche over the Lotus all day, everyday because I am a Porsche fanboi, and I trust that the Porsche would be more solidly built. But the Emira is certainly the more eye-catching car.

What I am not sure is -- which engine would be the more enjoyable one to pick? On paper, the Toyota V6 is a touch faster, and I am going to guess/bet that it will also be the more reliable engine. But of course the AMG 4-banger is very attractive too, at least in terms of output.

Only the V6 has the manual so that would be the decider for me but, like you said, this competes with a 718 GTS and the 718 GTS is an incredible car and Lotus can't really compete against the budget that went into a 718. There might be a couple niches where the Lotus is better (better looks for example) or more suited to a particular buyer but why get this over a 718 GTS? (I wouldn't kick it out of bed though).

[donk.]

I think I can't afford it

[Gerbs]

Originally Posted by Badhobz

3) performance is meh. 4.2/4.3 0-60 is okay, but this is suppose to be a true sports car and if youre paying base 911 money, it doesnt seem ultra competitive vs the 911.

Isn’t a base 911 close to $130ish before any options?

[whitev70r]

Originally Posted by Badhobz

ive been eyeing that porsche monthly rental program. its not that expensive, and it makes a lot of sense to pay 3-4k a month for 2-3 months out of the year when you actually have good driving weather. Plus they take care of all the maintenance and crap, you just gotta pay for gas.

https://www.porsche.com/canada/en/ac...edrive/rental/

I was going to borrow a 911 and take it down to california along highway 1 instead of beating up my own ratrolla this summer.

This is what I was going to say, even if I had $150K laying around, not sure if I would buy one or invest in a supercar. Exactly this, @$3-4K a month in the summer, (which is when you would drive your supercar anyhow), that $140K left over can go a long way! And the highlighted/bold part up top ^

[Badhobz]

Yup totally.

10k a year and you can get it for a few good months without worrying about depreciation. If you get this instead of buying a 150k car, that’s over 10 years of enjoyment. 150k car after 10 years is basically worthless anyways unless it magically becomes a collector car. Most cars won’t see that kind of return. And you have the flexibility of trying different rides. Want a vert ? Go for it. Want a coupe to track day ? Sure. Want to go out on a nice evening with a luxurious taycan?

I can’t believe this program exists. If they had it in Vancouver earlier i wouldn’t even bother buying the ratrolla.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

This is what I was going to say, even if I had $150K laying around, not sure if I would buy one or invest in a supercar. Exactly this, @$3-4K a month in the summer, (which is when you would drive your supercar anyhow), that $140K left over can go a long way! And the highlighted/bold part up top ^

Luxury taxes after the price hits $125k starts getting absurd too - the Boxster GTS 4.0 that I put a deposit on has almost $40k of taxes on it and I was at $129k pre-taxes ($173k total). If I drop the PDK (which I would) and get under $125k then I think I save about $10k in taxes.

[donk.]

Originally Posted by Badhobz

Yup totally.

10k a year and you can get it for a few good months without worrying about depreciation. If you get this instead of buying a 150k car, that’s over 10 years of enjoyment. 150k car after 10 years is basically worthless anyways unless it magically becomes a collector car. Most cars won’t see that kind of return. And you have the flexibility of trying different rides. Want a vert ? Go for it. Want a coupe to track day ? Sure. Want to go out on a nice evening with a luxurious taycan?

I can’t believe this program exists. If they had it in Vancouver earlier i wouldn’t even bother buying the ratrolla.

I don't know about that, literally any Lotus bought in the last 30 years has stayed flat in value, or doubled, even after adding 20-100kms to them. Look at the Elise or esprit.

Rare sports cars are almost never a bad buy, and lotus has that title for almost all of their cars due to limited availability.

It's not a 911, mustang, or Corvette that thousands on thousands are pumped out for sale

[Badhobz]

I guess so. I don’t see too many on the road anymore so I thought they all blew up. I mean theoretically buying a 911 isn’t a bad idea either. 10 years you shouldn’t lose too much either.

Ah who knows. But it’s better to have options.

[Badhobz]

Originally Posted by supafamous

Luxury taxes after the price hits $125k starts getting absurd too - the Boxster GTS 4.0 that I put a deposit on has almost $40k of taxes on it and I was at $129k pre-taxes ($173k total). If I drop the PDK (which I would) and get under $125k then I think I save about $10k in taxes.

I tried everything to weasel out of the higher tax when I bought last year. but they wouldn’t let me. I told them to discount the car (not unheard of before pandemic) and then id give them the difference but nope. No can do.

Luckily I bought in before the federal tax on luxury cars were implemented. It’s even worse right now with the gst at 10%.

[tofu1413]

Originally Posted by Traum

I don't think it is that bad? You are politely told to GTFO if you want to order any of the GT cars, but if you are only planning to get their regular cars, I think they would still gladly take your deposit money. It's just that it is going to be a 12 - 24 month wait for the Boxster / Cayman / 911, and there may or may not be allocations for the base model.

nope.

they won't take your factory order unless it has "$XXXX" worth of options.

[bcrdukes]

Lotus values have remained flat over the years. Yes, certain models are prone to huge depreciation, but the recent models like a Elise/Elise S, Exige etc. have been immune to depreciation for a variety of reasons. If you are passionate about the car and the brand, Lotus is one to pick up. They have their odd quirks and oddities, but you learn to live with them. At least the IMS bearing doesn't explode?

[Gerbs]

Originally Posted by Badhobz

ive been eyeing that porsche monthly rental program. its not that expensive, and it makes a lot of sense to pay 3-4k a month for 2-3 months out of the year when you actually have good driving weather. Plus they take care of all the maintenance and crap, you just gotta pay for gas.

https://www.porsche.com/canada/en/ac...edrive/rental/

I was going to borrow a 911 and take it down to california along highway 1 instead of beating up my own ratrolla this summer.

I'm priced at $539/Day x 3 Days = $1,617 a weekend x 12 weeks? = $19,404 for 12 weekend a year, seems cheaper to buy new. I don't think a 2023 911 will drop $100K in depreciation + warranty over 5 years. I think the rental program prohibits you from track days, but that only matters if you crash or get hit by a 3rd party lol.

Overall, the math still adds up to me that it's a lower cost of ownership if you can get an allocation to a non-generic sports car. The sports car market is fucked lol

Originally Posted by tofu1413

nope.

they won't take your factory order unless it has "$XXXX" worth of options.

You have to know somebody or offer something back aka an allocation of a car at your dealer, luxury watch, or some proposition to basically get it without options because they know you're walking out +10 - 20K+ in equity.

[dark0821]

Originally Posted by Traum

I don't think it is that bad? You are politely told to GTFO if you want to order any of the GT cars, but if you are only planning to get their regular cars, I think they would still gladly take your deposit money. It's just that it is going to be a 12 - 24 month wait for the Boxster / Cayman / 911, and there may or may not be allocations for the base model.

First hand experience... pre-pandemic (no I can't afford one) but I wanted to see how far away a M5 Competition was from a base 911, since on paper they are pretty similar for MSRP.

I was very politely asked if I was an existing P-car owner, or their customer. I said no, and was told that he will be happy to show me a few used 911 that was selling 20K over MSRP (I mean maybe they were fairly priced, but all the used ones had like weird options like stitched crest head rest and shit that just jacked the price up), otherwise I can start with a Macan or a Cayenne and he said he will be delighted to take a factory order 911 carrera or carrera S when the time come to upgrade.

So... yea... that was my own experience at Porsche Vancouver

The experience was so bad that the sales didnt even offer me his business card, I had to ask for it... I guess it just shows I am the poor mofo that is not their target market for 911s

[tofu1413]

^ Under the desk handy's basically

the demand is stronger than what the manufacturer can give them, so they need to maximize profit per unit.

This goes heavily on the Limited cars.

I get customers that order something limited (per say, LT cars) I tell them it has to be a decently good spec with some options, we are only get 7 (for example) for this whole store / run. We will prioritize the heavier spec cars and to people that are more into driving them than for speculation.