The AI apocalypse

[68style]

Deepseek is garbage, I asked it some specific questions about products I know a lot about and instead of saying it doesn't know or trying to learn, it just pulled answers completely out of its ass and gave out blatantly wrong info. What's the use of an AI that confidently gives you paragraphs of wrong information?

It's pretty neat considering the time/money put into it, but it ain't no ChatGPT.

[underscore]

Originally Posted by 68style

it just pulled answers completely out of its ass and gave out blatantly wrong info. What's the use of an AI that confidently gives you paragraphs of wrong information?

Sounds about the same as most of the other ones then lol.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by 68style

Deepseek is garbage, I asked it some specific questions about products I know a lot about and instead of saying it doesn't know or trying to learn, it just pulled answers completely out of its ass and gave out blatantly wrong info. What's the use of an AI that confidently gives you paragraphs of wrong information?

It's pretty neat considering the time/money put into it, but it ain't no ChatGPT.

As a test, I asked several bots "What type of lubricant is used on keyless works of a modern watch movement?" since I have been studying on that lately.

If it didn't give a specific answer, I asked "What actual product should I use though?"

Gemini gives literally the wrong answer that would cause major problems if someone followed it.

I replied with a query stating that, and it said

You are absolutely right to call me out on that. My apologies. Moebius 9010 and 9020 are not suitable for keyless works. They are excellent lubricants, but they are designed for other parts of the movement, such as the gear train. Using them in the keyless works could indeed cause significant problems, including gumming up the mechanism and preventing proper functioning.

And then gave a non standard answer that would still work okay (it recommended an old natural lubricant that would require service sooner than more modern products)

GPT gives one right answer if you ask the second prompt

Claude gives the right answer simply stated. I'll post it here:

Modern keyless works typically use Moebius 9504 synthetic oil, which is a low-viscosity lubricant specifically designed for sliding surfaces in watch movements.

Llama gives several results, one which would work but not primary. A couple of them are products I never heard of (but the brands are familiar) and Google gives zero results, so that's weird.

Most answered in a few sentences, some gave generic info on lubricants or what keyless works are. Never more than a paragraph or two

Here is DeepSeek's result:

<think>

Okay, so I need to figure out what type of lubricant is used on the keyless works of a modern watch movement. Let me start by breaking this down. First, what exactly are the keyless works? From what I remember, in a watch movement, the keyless works refer to the components that allow the user to wind the watch, set the time, and change other functions like the date without using a key, which was the old method. So, it's the mechanism that includes the crown, stem, winding pinion, sliding pinion, and the various levers and springs that interact with them.

Now, lubrication in watches is crucial because it reduces friction between moving parts, prevents wear, and ensures smooth operation. However, not all parts of a watch movement use the same type of lubricant. Different components might require different viscosities or properties depending on their function, the materials involved, the load they bear, and their exposure to environmental factors like temperature and moisture.

The keyless works involve components that are under relatively low stress compared to, say, the escapement or the gear train, but they still need lubrication to operate smoothly. Since these parts are typically engaged when setting the time or winding the watch, they might not be in constant motion like the gears, but they do need to function reliably when the user interacts with the crown.

I recall that watch lubricants are often synthetic oils or greases, designed to be long-lasting and stable. Some common lubricants used in watches include Moebius oils and greases. For example, Moebius 9010 is a synthetic oil that's used in higher-stress areas, while something like Moebius 9415 is a grease used for parts that need a thicker lubricant. Greases are typically used where components might need a more viscous or adherent substance, perhaps where there's sliding friction or where the lubricant needs to stay in place without migrating.

The keyless works might involve sliding parts, like the setting lever and the clutch wheel, which engage and disengage when switching between winding and setting modes. These sliding actions might benefit from a grease that stays in place and doesn't dry out quickly. On the other hand, pivots or rotational parts might use a lighter oil. However, if the keyless works are mostly levers and sliding surfaces, a grease could be more appropriate.

But wait, I should also consider that over-lubrication can be a problem. Applying too much grease or oil might attract dust or cause the mechanism to gum up over time. So the lubricant used must have the right viscosity and be applied in the correct quantity. Additionally, compatibility with the materials (like brass, steel, or alloys) is important to prevent corrosion or degradation.

I think in many modern watches, especially those from reputable manufacturers, the keyless works might use a specific grease. For instance, Moebius Grease 9415, which is a synthetic grease with a consistency that's suitable for sliding parts. Alternatively, some sources mention using lighter oils for certain parts of the keyless works, but greases are common where there's lateral movement.

Wait, another thought: the stem itself, which is part of the keyless works, might have some rotational parts where it enters the case. The stem might be lubricated with a grease to ensure smooth operation when pulled out or pushed in, and to provide a bit of a seal against moisture. However, the internal components like the sliding pinion and the yoke might use a different lubricant.

I should also check if there's a standard practice or a commonly referenced lubricant for keyless works. From some watchmaking guides or forums, I remember that for the keyless works, a grease like Moebius 941 (which is a lighter grease) or 9504 might be recommended. Alternatively, some people might use Epilam treatment, which isn't a lubricant but a surface treatment to reduce friction and prevent oil from spreading. But that's probably supplementary.

In summary, the keyless works likely use a grease rather than an oil, specifically a synthetic watch grease that's designed for low to moderate stress sliding and rotational movements. The exact type might vary by manufacturer, but common ones include Moebius 941 or 9504. It's important that the lubricant doesn't migrate, so a grease with good adhesion properties is preferable here.
</think>

In modern watch movements, the keyless works—responsible for functions like winding and setting the time—typically utilize a synthetic grease as the primary lubricant. This choice is due to the need for a lubricant that adheres well to sliding and rotational components without migrating, ensuring smooth operation and longevity.

Key Considerations:
Functionality: The keyless works involve sliding parts (e.g., setting levers, clutch wheels) and rotational elements (e.g., stem). Grease is ideal for sliding friction, while light oils might be used sparingly on pivots.
Common Lubricants:
Moebius 9415: A widely used synthetic grease for sliding components, offering stability and minimal migration.
Moebius 9504: A lighter grease suitable for fine mechanisms, often applied to stems and levers.
Material Compatibility: These greases are formulated to avoid corrosion and interact safely with metals like brass and steel.
Application Precision: Over-lubrication is avoided to prevent attracting debris or causing stiffness. Grease is applied sparingly to critical contact points.
In summary, synthetic greases such as Moebius 9415 or 9504 are standard for keyless works, balancing adhesion, durability, and resistance to environmental factors.

(Moebius 9504 is the standard answer btw, so it got there eventually). 9415 is usually used for something else (pallet stones)

That is not practical though

[BIC_BAWS]

Originally Posted by 68style

Deepseek is garbage, I asked it some specific questions about products I know a lot about and instead of saying it doesn't know or trying to learn, it just pulled answers completely out of its ass and gave out blatantly wrong info. What's the use of an AI that confidently gives you paragraphs of wrong information?

I learned a term of this recently at an Amazon AWS AI event. It's called a "hallucination", similar to how it works for real people.

[Manic!]

A am learning a bit of python o I asked the local smaller version of deepseek I am running to make me a game. I told it what the game should do. It got on line wrong. I tried multiple times, Ran the code in chatgtp and it fixed that line of code. Deepseek does have a version that's optimized for coding.

This is what is required to run different versions of deep seek.
https://apxml.com/posts/gpu-requirements-deepseek-r1

The full fat version with 671 billion parameters you need 1342 GB of video ram. That's 16 NVIDIA A100 80GB GPU's. At 22K that's 355k just for the GPU's.

[sonick]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

(Moebius 9504 is the standard answer btw, so it got there eventually). 9415 is usually used for something else (pallet stones)

That is not practical though

The <think> portion is what makes deepseek unique to other models, it actually shows the thought process of the AI which allows the users to more effectively ask follow up prompts in order to come up with a better answer.

Most other models hide the thought process behind it, but it will likely be something that more of the big models will start doing because it seems users really find it useful.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by sonick

The <think> portion is what makes deepseek unique to other models, it actually shows the thought process of the AI which allows the users to more effectively ask follow up prompts in order to come up with a better answer.

Most other models hide the thought process behind it, but it will likely be something that more of the big models will start doing because it seems users really find it useful.

I guess if you ignore all the "thinking" it shows, it looks about the same as the others

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

I guess if you ignore all the "thinking" it shows, it looks about the same as the others

What makes it different is the cost. The cost for a million tokens is a lot less vs chatgtp. You can also just run it locally and pay nothing after the hardware costs. This is big saving for companies using AI.