Furnace/Heat Pump

[TypeRNammer]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

Any comments or feedback from those who changed over to heat pump this year? When temps hit this low, this is what people are somewhat concerned about in terms of efficiency or effectiveness of a heat pump.

GREE unit here

3 of my bedrooms work perfectly fine so far

Downstairs living room it's blowing warm air, I'm assuming it's over worked since it stays on all the time

[Euro7r]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

Any comments or feedback from those who changed over to heat pump this year? When temps hit this low, this is what people are somewhat concerned about in terms of efficiency or effectiveness of a heat pump.

I've switched to gas furnace setting the last few days since it's been hella cold below freezing. Normally I feel the heat pump needs to run often to keep the house warm, as it's definitely not "toasty" hot compared to gas furnace. Although I do have my thermostat set to 20-21 average. Not sure what everyone has their settings set for?


In terms of $, I got my recent electricity bill & gas bill. Electricity Oct-Dec (2 months billing), $250. Gas bill roughly $40 a month. This is for a detached 2000 sq ft. house. I'm not sure if there's really any $ savings because I was comparing purely gas from my parents houses, it almost works out the same in total $. Just that I'm paying more in electricity and not gas. If any savings, think it would be minimal, but I don't have comparable yet with my own place since only had heat pump since Oct. The step 2 does make a dent on the $ with electricity as I can't see how anyone can keep it within step 1 with a heat pump.

[whitev70r]

^ ah ... you did the hybrid system with heat pump and furnace for lower temps. I thought about that option but most companies are pushing for a full delete of gas furnace.

Yah, we need more longer term data to see if it really is cost saving ... but apparently, it is saving the world, less fossil fuel, more electric energy.

[bcrdukes]

I'm cheap so I leave my thermostat on 19.5. In a year, I will do what all Asian parents do - don't turn it on.

[SSM_DC5]

mine is at 19.5 too

[bcrdukes]

Actually, the truth is that I have an Ecobee thermostat so it has some kind of built-in temperature setting option that helps save on energy consumption and costs. I did notice a significant savings from last year's bills when I did not turn the feature on. Having said that, it seems to hover in and around 19.5 degrees most of the time.

In comparison to last year's bills, I'm seeing over $30 per month of savings. Forget about the summer. It's just hot AF in Toronto.

[Great68]

My unit has had no problem keeping my house at nice and toasty 21 degrees through this entire cold snap. No resistive or backup gas heat. Cold Climate unit FTW.


It's my 5kW electric heater in my uninusulated and open rafter detached garage set to just keep it at 10C that's destroying my electric bill lol.

[whitev70r]

Great68 what brand heat pump, cold climate unit did you go with? Mitsubishi?

[Great68]

That's right, Mitsubishi Hyper Heat 3-ton.

This is my exact indoor & outdoor unit set:

https://www.mitsubishitechinfo.ca/si...NKA_202401.pdf

[Eff-1]

BUMP

FortisBC rebates are way higher right now than what Hydro is offering. We are considering taking advantage and swapping to a hybrid system as part of our reno.

It's a 2200 sq ft house still running on the original 40-yr old furnace.

As part of the project, we will upgrade our electrical to 200amp (and redo our wiring at the same time because it's aluminum and we are lacking a sufficient number of outlets).

Also we are thinking instant hot water to replace the current tank (which is serving our needs fine FWIW).

Anyone want to update their experience or throw in their two cents?

[bcrdukes]

By instant hot water tank, do you mean a tankless water heater? Or a traditional hot water tank?

[whitev70r]

Is there a particular reason you don't want to go all in and just use electrical heat pump vs. hybrid? If it is a 40 yr old furnace, eventually, it may have to be replaced. Here in YVR, a heat pump should be fine. In colder places, I see why someone might go hybrid.

[roastpuff]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

By instant hot water tank, do you mean a tankless water heater? Or a traditional hot water tank?

Assuming he means tankless water heater.

I run a Navien combi tankless, that handles both space heating and domestic hot water. Been very happy with it, very efficient for heating as well as hot water.

[Eff-1]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

Is there a particular reason you don't want to go all in and just use electrical heat pump vs. hybrid? If it is a 40 yr old furnace, eventually, it may have to be replaced. Here in YVR, a heat pump should be fine. In colder places, I see why someone might go hybrid.

Rebates. Fortis right is offering a $10k rebate with very few questions asked.

[Eff-1]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

By instant hot water tank, do you mean a tankless water heater? Or a traditional hot water tank?

Yep sorry, I meant a tankless water heater.

[TypeRNammer]

Originally Posted by Euro7r

I've switched to gas furnace setting the last few days since it's been hella cold below freezing. Normally I feel the heat pump needs to run often to keep the house warm, as it's definitely not "toasty" hot compared to gas furnace. Although I do have my thermostat set to 20-21 average. Not sure what everyone has their settings set for?


In terms of $, I got my recent electricity bill & gas bill. Electricity Oct-Dec (2 months billing), $250. Gas bill roughly $40 a month. This is for a detached 2000 sq ft. house. I'm not sure if there's really any $ savings because I was comparing purely gas from my parents houses, it almost works out the same in total $. Just that I'm paying more in electricity and not gas. If any savings, think it would be minimal, but I don't have comparable yet with my own place since only had heat pump since Oct. The step 2 does make a dent on the $ with electricity as I can't see how anyone can keep it within step 1 with a heat pump.

My last month's bill was $200 for the single month since I'm on time of usage billing, this month I'm current trending to $280

I do try to push everything into off peak hours such as car charging, dish washer, washer and dryer.

It's the heat pump and the cooking that's driving up the costs.

But over all we are managing better compared to last year where we were on the regular bimonthly billing where at the absolute peak it was $675 bucks

[bcrdukes]

I use a Rinnai tankless system. The place we bought had a rental traditional hot water tank which we got rid of. I also had to replace my furnace but it's a forced air / high velocity system (no way around this unless $$$$$$$$$$.) So far, I'm happy with the Rinnai tankless system. It has its quirks like needing a few minutes to heat up the water when cold, but otherwise, in the winter, it is more or less instant since we need heat and it gets pretty cold here.

[roastpuff]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

I use a Rinnai tankless system. The place we bought had a rental traditional hot water tank which we got rid of. I also had to replace my furnace but it's a forced air / high velocity system (no way around this unless $$$$$$$$$$.) So far, I'm happy with the Rinnai tankless system. It has its quirks like needing a few minutes to heat up the water when cold, but otherwise, in the winter, it is more or less instant since we need heat and it gets pretty cold here.

So I have forced air, and how we consolidated space/equipment is to use a combi tankless boiler that handles both DHW and SH - basically there's two circuits for hot water. One goes to the taps, and the other goes to a radiator/heat exchanger thing that basically goes where a furnace would but is 1/3rd the size. Fan blows over the radiator/heat exchanger = hot air out of the vents. My gas bill is quite low overall, and so is my electric. Around $50-70 dollars per month for Fortis.

[Eff-1]

Originally Posted by roastpuff

So I have forced air, and how we consolidated space/equipment is to use a combi tankless boiler that handles both DHW and SH - basically there's two circuits for hot water. One goes to the taps, and the other goes to a radiator/heat exchanger thing that basically goes where a furnace would but is 1/3rd the size. Fan blows over the radiator/heat exchanger = hot air out of the vents. My gas bill is quite low overall, and so is my electric. Around $50-70 dollars per month for Fortis.

What about cooling in the summer? Do you have a system for that?

[roastpuff]

Originally Posted by Eff-1

What about cooling in the summer? Do you have a system for that?

Our air handler is set up to have a cooling radiator in the system.... but our strata is blocking the install due to "electrical concerns" and "envelope penetration concerns" so...

Basically we can slot in an AC unit and run refrigerant into a similar radiator to get cool air in the summer. If my strata would allow it.



EDIT: So basically, heat pump is more efficient overall and can do dual duty for space heating. However, depending on your location/home/electrical/other factors there are alternatives available. This solution of mine is due to the cramped space of our mechanical area plus our townhouse strata being built on old electrical infrastructure which cannot support an additional circuit for a heat pump. I basically killed 2 birds (SH and DHW) with 1 stone (NG combi tankless boiler/hydronic air handle that takes up the same space as a traditional furnace) thus freeing up a bit of space in the mechanical area and is 97 or 99% efficient rated (whatever that means).

[Eff-1]

Got it. I did not realize you were in a strata and yes, that's a large factor!

[SSM_DC5]

Was reading up on the 10k rebate from Fortis. You can get it for changing your 40 yr old furnace? Changes to your water heater is something completely different? I'm also not seeing anything about requiring permits to do the work, just that it needs to be done by a contractor on their list. The hybrid system, how much is average price for the system itself. Watched a few old YouTube videos, I'm assuming the prices mentioned were USD, but they said they cost $10k.

[Eff-1]

I'm expecting to pay in the range of $7k - $10k AFTER the rebate.