Israel/Palestine Conflict (2023)

[JDMDreams]

Nah we just have to learn to shut the fuck up and deal with our own problems before meddling in other people's business halfway across the world. How about all the Canadian hobos zombieing around Hastings, free random stabbings and bonks on the head in dt but nope we must worry about random Palestinians. Housing x hospital crisis? Nah bro would someone think of the Ukrainians and Palestinians.

[JD¹³]

The photos in inv4zn's X links are from the top of the beige/white building shown here

This is not the impact of a precision guided munition. At minimum the IDF would have used a 250lb warhead (like an AGM missile) if they were actually targeting this site. A 500-1000lbs+ munition like they've been primarily using would have obliterated everything in the immediate vicinity, the cars wouldn't just be sitting there burnt out. If the IDF was trying to destroy subterranean infrastructure they'd have used a bunker-buster style bomb or something so big the blast vibration could have collapsed them, this is clearly not the case. A weapon with little explosive yield but a lot of shrapnel is what landed there. Make your own determinations on who might be firing those.

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by JD¹³

This is not the impact of a precision guided munition. At minimum the IDF would have used a 250lb warhead (like an AGM missile) if they were actually targeting this site. A 500-1000lbs+ munition like they've been primarily using would have obliterated everything in the immediate vicinity, the cars wouldn't just be sitting there burnt out. If the IDF was trying to destroy subterranean infrastructure they'd have used a bunker-buster style bomb or something so big the blast vibration could have collapsed them, this is clearly not the case. A weapon with little explosive yield but a lot of shrapnel is what landed there. Make your own determinations on who might be firing those.

Thank you x1000. A post with facts that leads its reader to draw their own conclusion.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

This whole thread is a pretty interesting microcosm of how much politics on this issue has changed, I'd say Trump has a lot to do with that.

In what world would you ever see people like Honda (conservative minded) take the side of Palestine? Back in the day if you were a Con/Neo-Con you would always take Israel's side on this topic.

On the flip side you're seeing lefties like Skinny falling on the Israeli end.

It's a fascinating change to old political dynamics.

I am absolutely NOT in favor of the Israelis here. Come on.

All I do is point out when some bullshit occurs, especially speaking against anti-Semitism (and don't confuse that with blind support of Israeli actions). Or like when people were asking "Why are Canada and US so strongly supporting Israel?". I explain that - it's because they are allies. You have to have allies in this world, and you have to support them. The other side has allies with some pretty nasty people, so you have to stand against that.

When your allies do something bad, you have to call them out. If that hospital attack was actually Israel, things might be a bit different today.. Biden even arrived in Israel a few hours after that happened!

I take issue with fake news and anti-Semitism, so I make a post pointing out my thoughts. I am not blindly supporting one side or the other. I am against genocide, imagine that! I am against terrorism too!

As for Israel, I look at what they are doing similar to what Britain did in the Colonial days. It's the same shit, a few hundred years later... They take land for themselves, or give it to others, or basically "strongly support" letting Jews basically start a nation there. What can I do about that now? What can you do about Canada? They have given up colonies before, should they do it again? I don't know...

All I know is, there's nothing much I can do about it, except witness history taking place, and just hope regular ass people who just want to live their lives don't get fucked over so much.

Imagine if this Zionist migration happened after WW2 instead of WW1... Would they have just given them a piece of Germany instead when they split it with the Russians?

[N.V.M.]

a very graphic video. be warned!

https://youtu.be/wAFDI63yvNQ?si=0j0on1TgbNl6oWTm

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

I am absolutely NOT in favor of the Israelis here. Come on.

All I do is point out when some bullshit occurs, especially speaking against anti-Semitism (and don't confuse that with blind support of Israeli actions). Or like when people were asking "Why are Canada and US so strongly supporting Israel?". I explain that - it's because they are allies. You have to have allies in this world, and you have to support them. The other side has allies with some pretty nasty people, so you have to stand against that.

When your allies do something bad, you have to call them out. If that hospital attack was actually Israel, things might be a bit different today.. Biden even arrived in Israel a few hours after that happened!

I take issue with fake news and anti-Semitism, so I make a post pointing out my thoughts. I am not blindly supporting one side or the other. I am against genocide, imagine that! I am against terrorism too!

As for Israel, I look at what they are doing similar to what Britain did in the Colonial days. It's the same shit, a few hundred years later... They take land for themselves, or give it to others, or basically "strongly support" letting Jews basically start a nation there. What can I do about that now? What can you do about Canada? They have given up colonies before, should they do it again? I don't know...

All I know is, there's nothing much I can do about it, except witness history taking place, and just hope regular ass people who just want to live their lives don't get fucked over so much.

Imagine if this Zionist migration happened after WW2 instead of WW1... Would they have just given them a piece of Germany instead when they split it with the Russians?

So by your reasoning Russia is simply “doing what England did” to Ukraine. By the logic proposed here I’d say Russia has a far stronger claim to Ukraine than Israel does to Palestinian lands.

But you see Russia as the “bad guys” so it doesn’t fit your narrative.

That’s a whole lot of words to not say much.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

So by your reasoning Russia is simply “doing what England did” to Ukraine. By the logic proposed here I’d say Russia has a far stronger claim to Ukraine than Israel does to Palestinian lands.

But you see Russia as the “bad guys” so it doesn’t fit your narrative.

That’s a whole lot of words to not say much.

They absolutely are trying to do it

Both are bad

What's your point again?

(btw you should go watch that WW1 history video I posted the other day.. It's only like 20 mins but you'll learn a lot)

[AzNightmare]

YouTube

[JDMDreams]

Lol catching up on the news now but yea BS on the 500 dead side, the fire explosion happened in a parking lot so unless you have 500 people just chilling in a parking lot waiting to be shot at no way that many people died. No crater just a few burnt cars. Also if 500 people died how will you know instantly, wouldn't it be a giant crater. How would you know 500 people were there. And you can wave your magic wand and count. The Israeli still dunno how many Israel people died in Israel but Hamas magically knows? So yes just a bunch of Palestine jihads killing their own people.

[nabs]

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

Nah we just have to learn to shut the fuck up and deal with our own problems before meddling in other people's business halfway across the world.

1000000000 %

[pastarocket]

-latest news about humanitarian aid from Egypt.

Sleepy Joe brokered a deal to open up the Rafah Crossing between Egypt and Gaza.

The Rafah crossing between Egypt and the Gaza Strip will be opened from the Egyptian side to deliver humanitarian aid to Gaza on Friday morning, Egyptian security officials at the border crossing told CNN.

Egypt's state-affiliated media outlet Al-Qahera News also reported the crossing will open on Friday, quoting an unnamed Egyptian official. The channel did not specify the exact time for the opening.

A CNN journalist at the crossing on the Egyptian side said 25 trucks carrying aid are already numbered and ready to cross the border on Friday.

The road to the Egyptian side of the crossing is being cleaned in preparation for opening, the journalist observed. Tents and toilets were set up Wednesday night for volunteers staying the night at the border.

A CNN stringer on the Egyptian side Wednesday saw several diggers and firetrucks enter the crossing to fix the road connecting the Egyptian and Palestinian border crossings.

Some context: The Rafah border crossing with Egypt in the south has been considered the last hope for Gazans to escape as Israel’s bombs rain down on the territory, and many Palestinians have begun moving in its direction in anticipation. However, it is currently shut.

US President Joe Biden helped broker a deal between Egypt and Israel on Wednesday. Biden said Egypt had agreed to open the Rafah crossing into Gaza for up to 20 trucks of humanitarian aid — but not evacuations. The World Health Organization said the 20 trucks were only a start, and that the aim is to get up to 100 trucks of aid distributed per day.

[JDMDreams]

Yea aid but I really wonder how they can prevent it going to the hamas

[Great68]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

than Israel does to Palestinian lands.
.

Wait Wut?

Kingdom of Israel and Judah: 1208 BCE

Muslim conquest of palestine: 625 CE

That's an 1800 year spread there bud.

[JDMDreams]

Yea according to history the Jews were there first

[SkinnyPupp]

It's debated whether a united kingdom of Israel existed. I guess it depends on how literally you want to take the bible. I've seen it argued (from Jewish people, not just anti-Semites, although they love this) that Judaism forbids them from having a nation state until the coming of the Messiah. Which of course is never going to happen, right?

That's where Zionism comes from, and was supported by Britain early on, supporting their migration into the territory, and eventually United Nations setting up borders.

Many countries, including Canada and the US (minus 4 years under Trump), are in favor of setting up a Palestinian state under the 1967 borders (so give them back the West Bank and East Jerusalem along with Gaza).

You can see how the borders changed from post WW1 migration, to the original UN plan, to 1967.

[inv4zn]

Any time someone says Zion my mind immediately goes to this

[Great68]

So what's the metric we're using to qualify statements such as "Russia has a greater claim to ukraine than israel to palestine"? Or any one peoples' claim to any lands really?


Are we only counting the the last 100 years as the frame of reference?

Because:

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by Great68

So what's the metric we're using to qualify statements such as "Russia has a greater claim to ukraine than israel to palestine"?

I would say those are bad faith arguments, and just don't bother responding to them.

[Great68]

*agreed, yes It's it's completely arbitrary.

[whitev70r]

Canada has 'high degree of confidence' Israel didn't strike hospital in Gaza: Blair

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/canada...lair-1.6611921

[lowside67]

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

Nah we just have to learn to shut the fuck up and deal with our own problems before meddling in other people's business halfway across the world. How about all the Canadian hobos zombieing around Hastings, free random stabbings and bonks on the head in dt but nope we must worry about random Palestinians. Housing x hospital crisis? Nah bro would someone think of the Ukrainians and Palestinians.

You're right... because we have not yet figured out how to tackle a problem at home, we should absolutely turn a blind eye to other problems elsewhere in the world. After all, nothing that happens anywhere globally could be more important than 12 blocks of the downtown Eastside.

As of a quick Google, over 10x as many Palestinians, and 5x as many Israelis have died in 2 weeks than all of 2022 in the DTES. And many are children, most are civilians, and presumably few are drug addicted.

Just STFU already.

-Mark

[lowside67]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

It's debated whether a united kingdom of Israel existed. I guess it depends on how literally you want to take the bible. I've seen it argued (from Jewish people, not just anti-Semites, although they love this) that Judaism forbids them from having a nation state until the coming of the Messiah. Which of course is never going to happen, right?

That's where Zionism comes from, and was supported by Britain early on, supporting their migration into the territory, and eventually United Nations setting up borders.

Many countries, including Canada and the US (minus 4 years under Trump), are in favor of setting up a Palestinian state under the 1967 borders (so give them back the West Bank and East Jerusalem along with Gaza).

You can see how the borders changed from post WW1 migration, to the original UN plan, to 1967.

I think it's also worth highlighting that not only are the Palestinians being squeezed geographically, but because the Israelis literally control every part of their country, they are on a path back to the stone age from a financial and systemic standpoint with massive unemployment, unreliable food/water/power/fuel, etc.

I will be the first to say I did not have nearly the appreciation for the conditions that the Palestinians have lived in for the last years until this conflict gave me a reason to read and learn a bit more - it's pretty tough to see this and you can definitely see how this kind of world they live in gives rise to extremists because it probably feels pretty "we're on a one way ticket to nothing, so what have we got to lose?"

Which is of course, a terrible recipe for desperate, poorly thought out actions. It's awful, and 100% unacceptable for Hamas to murder innocent Israeli civillians and they are rightly condemned for it. But I also feel strongly that this is being used as a launchpad for the Israelis to take equally or more despicable actions that they've "wanted" to do for years, and this provides them cover to do. And that is what we all need to stand up against.

-Mark

[Badhobz]

So hippie dippie Trudeau fuck commits 50 million dollars to Palestine humanitarian relief.

We could use some of that humanitarian relief locally. That would give some more beds for senior homes, paramedics need a raise, etc etc.

[whitev70r]

^ or more importantly, EV rebates

[westopher]

Originally Posted by Badhobz

So hippie dippie Trudeau fuck commits 50 million dollars to Palestine humanitarian relief.

We could use some of that humanitarian relief locally. That would give some more beds for senior homes, paramedics need a raise, etc etc.

By the time it's put through all the government systems to implement it it will cost 300 million to get 50 million into the systems.