Israel/Palestine Conflict (2023)

[MG1]

This reminds me of my high school buddy I hung out with. The one who always said, "It's because we're jewish, isn't it?" Didn't mater if two of us (his friends) were as asian as asian gets.

Every time we got a raw deal, it was.......... because we were jewish.

We laughed and laughed at that............. not so funny now.


I get it. Jewish people throughout history have beed persecuted. Not sure what it is. Never bothered to find out.

Anyway, they say the majority of bullies once used to be victims themselves of bullying. I'll leave it at that.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by inv4zn

"Some of you will die, but that is a sacrifice we're willing to make" - Hamas, probably

Not so probably

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[SkinnyPupp]

Do you guys think Israel's plan of:

-Evacuating Northern Gaza and Gaza city where most of Hamas is HQ'd
-Invading Gaza and clearing out any Hamas activity
-Letting the Palestinians move back into the area

Is the best case realistic scenario?

Hamas is actively trying to prevent it, keeping as many Palestinians in the line of fire as possible. So obviously they're against it.

[Traum]

1) Demanding the evacuation of northern Gaza in 24 hours is already a dumb and impossible idea to begin with. It just goes to show that Israel is going through the motions of "I've given you the warning to leave already!", when in fact they don't really give a damn about the lives of Palestinians living in Gaza.

But hey, how is that different from their attitude towards Gaza and its residents over the last 50 - 60+ years?

UN has already condemned that the time-limited evacuation is an impossible ask.

2) Every indication is pointing to a ground invasion of Gaza by the IDF. The IDF spokesperson said they will exercise "professionalism" and not target civilians. I point blank do not believe her.

3) Even if Israel let Palestinians back into northern Gaza after they've "cleaned out" the Hamas HQ and fighters, does anyone really think the returning residents will just "let it go"? Even if the IDF wiped out every last Hamas personnel in Gaza, some remaining residents will simply form another rebellion / military / terrorist movement to hit back at Israel.

The fighting and bloodshed have been going on for hundreds and thousands of years. History has only proven that neither side will back down when the solution they attempt is through bloodshed.

[inv4zn]

Originally Posted by Traum

1) Demanding the evacuation of northern Gaza in 24 hours is already a dumb and impossible idea to begin with. It just goes to show that Israel is going through the motions of "I've given you the warning to leave already!", when in fact they don't really give a damn about the lives of Palestinians living in Gaza.

But hey, how is that different from their attitude towards Gaza and its residents over the last 50 - 60+ years?

UN has already condemned that the time-limited evacuation is an impossible ask.

2) Every indication is pointing to a ground invasion of Gaza by the IDF. The IDF spokesperson said they will exercise "professionalism" and not target civilians. I point blank do not believe her.

3) Even if Israel let Palestinians back into northern Gaza after they've "cleaned out" the Hamas HQ and fighters, does anyone really think the returning residents will just "let it go"? Even if the IDF wiped out every last Hamas personnel in Gaza, some remaining residents will simply form another rebellion / military / terrorist movement to hit back at Israel.

The fighting and bloodshed have been going on for hundreds and thousands of years. History has only proven that neither side will back down when the solution they attempt is through bloodshed.

So according to a bunch of articles, Israel did not give Gaza 24 hours to evacuate. They told the UN to evacuate within 24 hours. To corroborate this, that 24 hours has since passed and there has been no incursion as far as what's reported.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by inv4zn

So according to a bunch of articles, Israel did not give Gaza 24 hours to evacuate. They told the UN to evacuate within 24 hours. To corroborate this, that 24 hours has since passed and there has been no incursion as far as what's reported.

I think they're saying it's due to the weather

[mikemhg]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

Do you guys think Israel's plan of:

-Evacuating Northern Gaza and Gaza city where most of Hamas is HQ'd
-Invading Gaza and clearing out any Hamas activity
-Letting the Palestinians move back into the area

Is the best case realistic scenario?

Hamas is actively trying to prevent it, keeping as many Palestinians in the line of fire as possible. So obviously they're against it.

The last part isn't going to happen.

It's a silly move but that's why Hamas is encouraging people to stay, but the last time there was a forced evacuation the Israeli's ended up annexing the same land. They'll most definitely do the same this time, this is the plan in the first place. I doubt many of these people will be allowed back.

Skinny, lets go back to that map. You don't find it odd that most of the propaganda coming out of Israel about the Hamas attack seems to resolve around stories involving children? Why is that? Because it pulls at the heartstrings, anytime an allegation is made that involves hurting children, it allows a blanket response that is digestible by the public, no matter how harsh.

Hamas is doing the same type of propaganda themselves reporting that many of the civilians dying in these bombings are women and children. Is that true, who knows?

Serious question -- Is there a difference between killing a child with a bullet vs a bomb?

[mikemhg]

This whole thing is going to be a massive humanitarian disaster, Egypt doesn't want these refugees, it'll be interesting to see where they will go.

Gaza is going to look like Bakhmut when this whole thing is said and done.

Even if these people were allowed to go home when it's over (the Israel's won't allow this), there will be nothing to come home to anyways.

[Hondaracer]

Ukraine has infinitely more opportunities in every single aspect of life in regards to industry, agriculture, stability, etc. even as their war rages on. And in those regions where there is a possibility of rebuilding and recovering the likelihood of any “normality” ever returning it 20-40 years away.

What future does anyone in Gaza have? Little shop keepers and people who have nothing other than the home that lays in rubble. It’s not like they’re calling up their insurance agency and filing a claim. Generations of these peoples lives are now destroyed going forward and backward.

GG, good luck raising the next 3 generations of your family in a refugee camp.

[JDMDreams]

Ship them to Iran? Seems like they are like minded and Iran is giving them money and training already.

[Hondaracer]

None of these countries that support Hamas and the Palestinians want them in their own country. They just want them as pawns inside Israel

[Badhobz]

Man fuck face Trudeau better not start giving handouts to Palestinians to resettle in Canada. Just like those Syrian refugees.

Where the shit was my family handout when we got to Canada in the 90s broke as shit ?

[Hondaracer]

Your family weren’t part a religious group who adamantly opposes the western way of life, so you were SOL lol

Trudeau sends a bunch of money to Israel last week, then this week he disagrees with the human right atrocities being carried out.. lulz

[Traum]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

What future does anyone in Gaza have? Little shop keepers and people who have nothing other than the home that lays in rubble. It’s not like they’re calling up their insurance agency and filing a claim. Generations of these peoples lives are now destroyed going forward and backward.

GG, good luck raising the next 3 generations of your family in a refugee camp.

That's why the only long term results the Israeli military action will bring is more violence. I can guarantee you that some portion of the displaced Palestinians will be joining Hamas or whatever other violent anti-Israel group that is there, while the others (displace Palestinians) will at least be sympathizers of the anti-Israel efforts.

Originally Posted by Badhobz

Man fuck face Trudeau better not start giving handouts to Palestinians to resettle in Canada. Just like those Syrian refugees.

With Turd (and the Liberal gov) officially supporting Israel, it seems unlikely that Canada will go to any great lengths to assist Palestinian refugees from Gaza.

[Harvey Specter]

Maybe the West should stop meddling in Middle Eastern politics, and perhaps we won't have to send millions of dollars or find new homes for millions of war torn refugees.

[JDMDreams]

^ but white people numba one, must controls da world la it's the white way or no way how else do you make America great again by putting others below you. #wuhan virus

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

The last part isn't going to happen.

It's a silly move but that's why Hamas is encouraging people to stay, but the last time there was a forced evacuation the Israeli's ended up annexing the same land. They'll most definitely do the same this time, this is the plan in the first place. I doubt many of these people will be allowed back.

Skinny, lets go back to that map. You don't find it odd that most of the propaganda coming out of Israel about the Hamas attack seems to resolve around stories involving children? Why is that? Because it pulls at the heartstrings, anytime an allegation is made that involves hurting children, it allows a blanket response that is digestible by the public, no matter how harsh.

Hamas is doing the same type of propaganda themselves reporting that many of the civilians dying in these bombings are women and children. Is that true, who knows?

Serious question -- Is there a difference between killing a child with a bullet vs a bomb?

The maps and info aren't JUST about kids though; that's just what the media has been putting in the headlines. The plans are actually insanely detailed, and for all the early questions of "how did they get away with such a large scale attack?" these plans answer those.

SOMEONE made a battle plan, and many of the terrorists had them. If it is propaganda, it means the provocateurs planned the attack, and somehow the terrorists followed the exact same plans. I find that harder to believe than "terrorists went after the most exposed civilians possible, and in some cases that meant kids"

As for women and children getting hit by bombs, it makes sense because Hamas puts their targets in the worst possible locations in terms of collateral damage. And I think I saw something about more than half the population in Gaza are women and children. More than average populations at least. I assume that's because a lot of the men become terrorists when they reach adulthood, and get themselves killed.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by Harvey Specter

Maybe the West should stop meddling in Middle Eastern politics, and perhaps we won't have to send millions of dollars or find new homes for millions of war torn refugees.

As the US gradually evolved from an oil net importer to a net exporter, it has pretty much allowed its relationship with Saudi deteriorate. In that sense, it is already meddling a lot less in the Middle East.

Israel is an entirely different ball game though. I know initial support for Israel came from a desire to support a Jewish state, and as time passes, Israel is the US' trump card to counter-balance Russia's influence in the Middle East.

So does that mean if Russia can be made to implode as a result of the Ukraine war, the US might finally be able to stop backing Israel?

[SkinnyPupp]

Israel won't necessarily need so much US support eventually, as they have already been in peace talks with the surrounding countries. That's part of why Iran is so mad and setting up Hamas.

They're still going to be aligned of course, because it's not just about oil but security against the axis of Iran/Russia/North Korea/(and eventually maybe China?)

[Great68]

I don't know why it's so hard to believe these guys had detailed plans of their operations.
And with the countless videos out there of their indiscriminate killings and atrocities against civilians, I don't find it so hard to believe that children were involved.

Like you seriously think these Hamas monsters were out there on their rampage, saw some kids and pulled back, all like "yeah man, can't hurt kids, that's a step too far!"

Give me a fucking break.

[mikemhg]

I'm not saying that at all.

Who would think this wasn't planned? I don't see anyone making that argument, of course it was planned, one could never coordinate such an attack without planning.

My issue is with the details, specifically the Israeli government alleging dozens of baby beheadings without any proof or substantiation of that. I fully believe that is propaganda, you do realize that states tend to use flagrant allegations as a means of winning the war of perception with the public?

The same way during the infancy of the Ukraine/Russia war where both parties accused each other of their soldiers raping women. Why? Because it makes the other side look much worse.

Obviously Hamas killed some children. I'm sure the answer lies somewhere in the middle, some were shot, some might've died by other means (grenades, etc.). No way am I saying that's acceptable.

My question is why is it when an Israeli child is killed it's time to pearl clutch, but if thousands of more children are killed by dropping bombs on Gaza, it's par for the course?

Why is one fine, but the other is not?

[mikemhg]

I feel like some have amnesia from history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_o...archs_massacre

Goldstein murdered 29 Palestinians in the attack, including six children fourteen years old or younger.[43] Several people were left with paralyzing wounds. Palestinians count the number of murdered to include those who later expired or were shot outside the mosque in the immediate aftermath.[32]

Children dying in wars and conflicts is the unfortunate result of battle, whether Israeli and Palestinian lets put that stupid argument to rest, it's hypocritical.

Let's not pretend that the Israelis haven't before, or actively target children over the course of this multi-decade conflict.

You know how many children are simply shot at the border by the IDF on a regular basis over throwing rocks? That's never talked about because the shooting of 1 or 2 Palestinian children on a weekly basis isn't considered "sexy".

What is the difference between a protracted series of killings over the course of decades, as opposed to a single mass casualty event like last week?

[Hondaracer]

Critical thinking isn’t allowed! Just get Angry! Angry from what the media feeds you incidentally owned and operated by predominantly Jewish men lol..

We’ve spent the last fucking decade with govt, organizations, charities, everythinggggggg trying to say all people are equal, all lives are equal, all children deserve a chance etc.

Evidently not when it’s Israel doing the bombing! Lol JT and every western leader is -terrified- to say what everyone else is thinking in that Israel is fucking FLATTENING Gaza and in those pancakes buildings there will be countless children, women, families who have nothin to do with this conflict other than trying to scrape out a life.

It’s pretty obvious that Israeli lives are worth infinitely more than Palestinians when it comes to the west’s perspective.

Everything is so fucking gross lol.. uhg

[mikemhg]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Critical thinking isn’t allowed! Just get Angry! Angry from what the media feeds you incidentally owned and operated by predominantly Jewish men lol..

It's that part that gets you into heat over here

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

My question is why is it when an Israeli child is killed it's time to pearl clutch, but if thousands of more children are killed by dropping bombs on Gaza, it's par for the course?

Nobody here is saying any of that though... I'm just saying "it probably happened, so it probably wasn't made up". As you say, children dying in war is an unfortunate reality. It's happening, it's being reported on, it's not fake news or propaganda.

That's the only argument I was having with you... Yes the media is reporting on it more, but that doesn't mean it's propaganda made up by Israel, and it doesn't mean they are planting these attack papers on dead terrorists. It's just what they do to get the most attention onto their story.