Tesla Cybertruck

[Hondaracer]

Vancouver is such an anomaly. There are few places in the world where there is this prevalence of EV’s. I guarantee you I see more EV’s in a week in Vancouver than I did in 4 months in Europe.

It’s also one of the few places where it actually makes environmental sense to have an EV with the vast majority of our power coming from hydro. Who cares about switching to an EV somewhere where you burn fuel to generate electricity, it’s pointless.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Vancouver is such an anomaly. There are few places in the world where there is this prevalence of EV’s. I guarantee you I see more EV’s in a week in Vancouver than I did in 4 months in Europe.

It’s also one of the few places where it actually makes environmental sense to have an EV with the vast majority of our power coming from hydro. Who cares about switching to an EV somewhere where you burn fuel to generate electricity, it’s pointless.

EV energy use is at least 6X more efficient than an ICE, so even if the energy comes from fuel, a lot less fuel is used. It's not pointless at all. It's also much cheaper and efficient to buy that fuel as "power" than at the gas station.

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Vancouver is such an anomaly. There are few places in the world where there is this prevalence of EV’s. I guarantee you I see more EV’s in a week in Vancouver than I did in 4 months in Europe.

It’s also one of the few places where it actually makes environmental sense to have an EV with the vast majority of our power coming from hydro. Who cares about switching to an EV somewhere where you burn fuel to generate electricity, it’s pointless.

I guess you did not go to Norway.



https://cleantechnica.com/2023/05/03...onth-above-90/

Norway increased its plugin electric vehicle market share to 91.1% in April 2023, up from 84.2% year-on-year. The auto market is still settling down after policy changes that came in at the start of the year. Overall auto volume was 8,976 units, down 7.7% year-on-year. The bestselling vehicle was, again, the Tesla Model Y.

[RabidRat]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

This whole EV wave was just a ridiculous scam in so many ways. People who understand current tech, and the market itself seen this coming YEARS ago.

The idea of pivoting full EV by 2035 was such a ludicrous goal, flushed through by feckless and moronic politicians. When will these guys tell the truth in that we simply won't be there by 2035?

A lot of these CEOs are about to look pretty stupid in the next year or two by throwing all their chips into going full EV with their lineups. It reminds me of the NFT/Crypto craze of the early 2020s where so many seemingly educated fools fell hook line and sinker for such an asinine idea.

It's utterly baffling.

Probably they're going for a self-fulfilling prophecy kind of thing. If we (via the politicians we voted for) don't find a way to reassure car companies that there's some kind of motivation to burn up money on R&D spend + reduced profit margins, then why would they do it?

Politicians committing now to a 2035 ICE ban in addition to incentivizing EV sales and charging infrastructure probably means that EV technology and scale makes economic and environmental sense by 2040.

If politicians committed to a 2040 ICE ban, then that wouldn't come til 2045.

Or if they didn't commit to anything, then we wouldn't get there at all.

And meanwhile, global warming isn't going to wait. Switching to EVs probably isn't going to move the needle enough all by itself but it's a necessary part of a larger effort.

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Who cares about switching to an EV somewhere where you burn fuel to generate electricity, it’s pointless.

The premise is that it's a lot more efficient to convert fuel to energy at centralized power plants, than in a bunch of individual internal combustion engines.

Also, it's better for human health not to be dissipating all the pollution where the population is concentrated.

[immorality]

Originally Posted by Manic!

I guess you did not go to Norway.

I was in Norway last year and this absolutely tracks with what I saw there. Not a single interesting vehicle I could give a fuck about, with the exception of a 240 drift car on a trailer passing in the other direction. Nothing against EV's, just everything is an appliance.

[teggy604]

Norway, Denmark, Netherlands are top of the world when it comes to cycling year round to work, school, doing errand etc... I don't think people rely on their vehicles in general. It is a mindset and lifestyle change. Here people still rely on their vehicles whether it be EV, PHEV, ICE to go to 7-11. lol.

[freakshow]

RS might also be a biased population to ask. My wife for example will never go back to ICE. She probably doesn't remember how to use a gas pump at this point.
We just drove down to Bellevue, and with the kids in tow, I have to admit, the drive down with Autopilot was extremely pleasant/easy.

[Hondaracer]

Population of Norway is also about the same as BC.

Also a country that actually used their fossil fuel reserves correctly and provided wealth to its citizens which enabled the transition to green tech unlike Canada.

If our car was written off, I was looking at options, I could get a vehicle like an RDX with 20-30,000kms for between 40-55. Honda reliability, OK on fuel etc.

The comparative EV would be a model Y, a far less reliable, poorer build quality, etc. etc. for almost 25-30k more than the RDX (albeit used VS new)

The tale as old as time is, I would never realize the savings difference between the RDX and the Y, and I’d likely have a better experience with the RDX overall.

Saving the environment at the expense of your pocketbook and overall wealth.

[Hondaracer]

If I had a decent way to charge an EV at home I’d be far more open to it, but as someone who drives 400km+ in a one way trip 8-12 times a year, I think EV’s really have to double their range across every model and drop 25-40% by 2030 for them to be any sort of feasibility to their long term goals of getting rid of ICE vehicles.

[freakshow]

I think you hit on the two main reasons I would advise against an EV..
If you can't charge it at home, it's a worse experience overall since you always have to think about charging. Or if you're doing monthly long trips, superchargers are ok, but might as well stick with ICE/PHEV.

If those two don't apply, and you're buying a new car anyways (not buying a new EV to 'save money'), honestly, Model 3 is currently hard to beat.

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Population of Norway is also about the same as BC.

Also a country that actually used their fossil fuel reserves correctly and provided wealth to its citizens which enabled the transition to green tech unlike Canada.

and who's fault is that. Who sold Petrocan? Who was been controlling Alberta?

I have no Idea why you are supporting the cons. When you believe in nothing they support.

[JDMDreams]

Whoever builds a refinery will get my vote.

[68style]

I'm building one out of Lego's right now, I has your vote?

[radeonboy]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

If I had a decent way to charge an EV at home I’d be far more open to it, but as someone who drives 400km+ in a one way trip 8-12 times a year, I think EV’s really have to double their range across every model and drop 25-40% by 2030 for them to be any sort of feasibility to their long term goals of getting rid of ICE vehicles.

I agree there are many lifestyle use cases and commercial applications where today's EVs don't make sense, but I expect these limitations to be addressed as the segment grows in the 11 years between now and the 2035 EV mandate deadline. While I have reservations about achieving the 2035 goal, having a specific target puts us in a better position to make progress compared to not having one at all. Many automakers are making an honest effort to give people EV options that fit their lifestyle by growing their EV portfolio, and having that 2035 goal offers some form of insurance for their R&D investment into EVs and its supporting infrastructure.

Personally, I'm seeing a growing number of people in my circle of family and friends who are moving to EVs. Most of them also keep a gas car around or rent one for their odd road trip beyond the lower mainland. Other people I know living in the north are growing warmer to Hybrids / PHEVs as these vehicles still yield gas savings for day-to-day driving with the flexibility of a gas engine for longer drives.

[Great68]

They basically need to triple battery capacity and cut charge time down to 1/3 of what it is now within those 10 years to make any sort of recreational vehicle (RV's, trucks for towing trailers) feasible.

Gas stations along major highway routes are already jam packed in the summer time.
For example the big Shell Station in Campbell River that we always stop at to refuel is 16 pumps, and always busy full of campers.

I could just imagine if those were chargers instead of pumps and every truck/trailer rig needed to wait there for at least an hour.

Very tall order to accomplish in 12 years. Better hope some miracle battery breakthrough happens.

[68style]

I'm a car enthusiast, and not in the way where I am enthusiastic about something just because it's new/advanced... I don't give a shit about saving $ on gas... no engine noise = death to me, so I'm out lol

I wouldn't turn down a Model S Plaid as a commuting car though if someone gave it to me or it was super cheap (not saying from a "duh obviously I could sell it after who wouldn't take a free car" perspective.. just gave to use for awhile and took back), I like the look of it and it's violently fast. Might be fun for awhile until the novelty of breaking the sound barrier off every stoplight wears off or I (most likely) lose my license.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by Manic!

and who's fault is that. Who sold Petrocan? Who was been controlling Alberta?

I have no Idea why you are supporting the cons. When you believe in nothing they support.

The selling out of our oil happened long before modern day conservatives pushed it to the brink.

Tbh Canada is so fucked I don’t support anyone. Just want cons to get in for people like you to enjoy it. We’ve become a country where you either can own a cyber truck or ya die of an ear infection

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by 68style

I'm a car enthusiast, and not in the way where I am enthusiastic about something just because it's new/advanced... I don't give a shit about saving $ on gas... no engine noise = death to me, so I'm out lol

I wouldn't turn down a Model S Plaid as a commuting car though if someone gave it to me or it was super cheap (not saying from a "duh obviously I could sell it after who wouldn't take a free car" perspective.. just gave to use for awhile and took back), I like the look of it and it's violently fast. Might be fun for awhile until the novelty of breaking the sound barrier off every stoplight wears off or I (most likely) lose my license.

EV’s will never be for the true “car” person, but those are few and far between these days

I had a P85 model S for a week, it was great, mindless driving, comfortable, it drove itself even for an older model. As you said though as a car person I think it would become increasingly boring to have a car that’s fast in a straight line but offers little else in terms of driving thrill.

My dads 993 is the antithesis of a EV and it’s so much more than you could ever ask for, yea it’s a 30 year old German car, but air cooled inline motor behind your head rumbling and growling and feeling like it could kick the bucket at any moment, but for a 30 year old car with less than a quarter HP of some of these Teslas, it offers infinite thrill no EV ever will.

[JDMDreams]

Gets a cyber truck + Miata ??? Profit. I agree Canada is turning to shit, the price you pay for mediocre democracy and bureaucracy. Soon they will start banning gays and abortions. Can't wait till they ban homelessness

[68style]

^ What are you on?

[underscore]

Originally Posted by Great68

Very tall order to accomplish in 12 years. Better hope some miracle battery breakthrough happens.

We'd probably be better off if they'd started building nuclear plants and going full ham on hydrogen, but that's not going to happen.

Have we even got enough hydro projects on the go to support that many EV's? It's gonna take a lot of supply and some pretty serious infrastructure to get it into the hubs like Campbell River/Hope/Merritt/etc even if they speed up charging. Being able to charge 16 Rivians in 5-10 mins, repeatedly, is gonna take some serious power.

[Hondaracer]

The power isn’t really the issue as far as I know, it’s the infrastructure

Everyone at every level wants to end ICE, but who’s gonna pay 500k or more for a group of charging stations? Running primary lines and building a transformer setup for each one of these will be prohibitively expensive unless there’s huge investment from either private or public sectors. Which in turn is of course going to eventually lead to EV’s costing close to what a car would to fill up.

Especially if we do get to the point where super super chargers can charge vehicles in 10-15 minutes. If the choice is to wait 30-45 minutes or pay 3-5 times as much to charge in 10, those 45 minute chargers will disappear real quick.

[Manic!]

There once was a time when the gap between a cheap car and expensive car was really big. That's not the case any more. Most people just want a reliable car with an okish sound system with some way to connect/charge there phone. I am not sad the ICE car is going away because it has been mastered. There is nothing to improve upon because everything that could be done has been done.

Car enthusiasts should start saving there money. As EV's become cheaper more people are going to switch. That's going to cause the price of used ICE cars to go down.

[68style]

Car market is different though... I think there will come a time period when ICE cars will bottom out in general or they'll get wiped out, but then people will get nostalgic and start trying to find models that they loved when they were younger or it becomes cool or status to have an ICE car then you will see a massive swing up in collectability prices.

[westopher]

EVs are going to be the bridge between gas and synthetic fuels. The laserdisc of cars basically.
Old gas cars will be the vinyl of vehicles. Provide that special feeling you can't get from the modern digital world. Not everyone's going to want to have it take up the space, but those that do will have lots.