New Landcruiser

[underscore]

Originally Posted by RabidRat

Anyone know why diesel drivetrains seem hugely more reliable than gas ICE?

They used to be because they used to be very simple. But even 15-20 years ago they started getting a lot more complex. Modern ones are insanely complex. You can't even see the actual engine in my buddies GM and the engine bay is enormous. You need to be doing a lot of heavy hauling to justify the difference these days imo.

[noclue]

Yeah my family had a F350 with the 6.7L powerstroke. It had pretty impressive fuel economy for the size 9.8l/100km but the maintenance costs were at least double of a gasser + def fluid.Plus the suspension is meant for heavy towing/hauling so the ride was rock hard unless it was loaded. We switched to a F150 and it is perfect. Nowadays with diesel being more $ than regular it’s hard to justify unless you really need it for the payload or towing.

[AstulzerRZD]

& back in the day - the F150s had 5k lb towing capacity and 2k lb payload.
nowadays, it's 14k towing and 3k payload.

Same deal with power, 390 hp and 735 tq on the 6.7
and now the 3.5 Ecoboost has 450hp / 510tq.

At this pt, towing is far more cooling and brake limited.

[noclue]

I was at openroad toyota the other day and a landcruiser was marked up to 100K...
and it was sold!

[AstulzerRZD]

They are selling UNDER MRSP in the states, 10-15k incentives

[radeonboy]

^That's pretty irrelevant for us Canadians here - our supply is limited and we can't readily take advantage of those US incentives anyway. Not any different than those cheap EQS / EV leases.

I see the Land Cruisers quite regularly nowadays - it's definitely retro looking and more fun to see than GXs on the road.

[RabidRat]

What's the best way to get a deal in Canada these days?

Is it recommended to go through CarCostCanada or the like? Or trying to go through a broker (any leads?).

Emailing the dealerships directly, I've only been able to get an offer at MSRP from Orangeville Kia for an EV9 GT-Line. Brantford Kia wanted more than MSRP. This pricing has been the same since May 2024 til now, and I would've thought pricing would've been pushed down by now.

[AstulzerRZD]

I think in general, it means that the GX/Land Cruiser aren't very well received if they're 15/5k off in their launch year.
Compare to Bronco that's still at MRSP 3-4 years later.

It's only a matter of time that dealers start discounting, or even TMMC offers the same incentive.
Solterra has 9k incentive rn in Canada, I think the same will happen for GX/LC soon enough

[twitchyzero]

i mean solterras were having wheels flying off and the ttv6 is widely recalled

bronco is also not diluted within the brand, whereas toyota has released like all 6 different truck/trucky products within a year's time, most of which have identical wheelbase

[68style]

I was (unfortunately) at OpenRoad Richmond Toyota today and they have a basic LandCruiser in their showroom... there's absolutely nothing about it that justiifies the $80k starting price tag... cloth seats and hard plastics everywhere inside, pretty mundane exterior. I don't care enough to build one, likely have to get close to 6 digits to get something cool looking but it was pretty boring / disappointing in person.

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

i mean solterras were having wheels flying off and the ttv6 is widely recalled

ya, i think the discounts will come
if not a specific cash incentive, the lease/finance rates will get subsidized

the 9% rates for Corollas, Civics, and RAV4s right now is killer

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by 68style

I was (unfortunately) at OpenRoad Richmond Toyota today and they have a basic LandCruiser in their showroom... there's absolutely nothing about it that justiifies the $80k starting price tag... cloth seats and hard plastics everywhere inside, pretty mundane exterior. I don't care enough to build one, likely have to get close to 6 digits to get something cool looking but it was pretty boring / disappointing in person.

I don't have a problem with hard plastics. I think the media has gotten everyone brainwashed where everything needs to be soft touch plastic. As long as it doesn't snap, crackle, pop it's good plastic. Most of the interior cubbies and doors are hard plastics in anything below the a midsize luxury car. Especially on a offroader, I think hard plastics make more sense.

Not that I am the target market for it. RZD is right, the market is gonna choose a R1T over a LC. I think the NA LC looks great but the size is a miss when it's effectively the same size as the T4R. Toyota has their segments way too crowded.

[jaaagman]

I never understood why the 4Runner and the LC coexist at this point. Toyota's crossover/truck lineup at this point is insane. Is Canadian supply still seeing the same constraints? It doesn't seem like the situation has improved much since 2022. Interest rates are now much higher, so in theory, the demand should be lower...

[noclue]

They're sending most of the hybrids to the USA for more $ due to the strong USD. We get the scraps.

Still massive waits for Sienna/RAV4 prime etc

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by jaaagman

I never understood why the 4Runner and the LC coexist at this point. Toyota's crossover/truck lineup at this point is insane. Is Canadian supply still seeing the same constraints? It doesn't seem like the situation has improved much since 2022. Interest rates are now much higher, so in theory, the demand should be lower...

Used to work in product planning and I actually think this is gonna work:

4R: for former 4Runner buyers, mostly working class.
Continues to appeal to "price sensitive" folks who are interested in "investing" in a trusted name and "reliable" off roader.

LC: Toyota's response to a few market forces; will be more limited production

• Defender moving down market in price and style but raising buyer expectations
• 3-row LC owners aging and kids aren't school aged, wanting more fun than practicality
• Dealer experience quite subpar especially in south-east
• Former FJ aspirers now having some disposable income but don't want a 4R

GX: "best engine" and interior; conservative Arizona/Utah/Socal suburb families who aren't ready for electric

Current gaps/big risks in product lineup:

1) Lexus buyer averages mid-late 50s, buying largely based on relationship/reputation.
Sales are growing but under investment in entry level product/marketing means brand sales are at huge risk in 5-10 year timeframe.

2) Two areas where TMNA led - infotainment and trucks.
Though TMNA won the infotainment bet, they'll need to sell subscriptions to keep planning influence.
Warranty costs associated w/ Tundra may see power shift from TMNA towards TMJP.

3) Frontier investments - if they can pull off solid state batteries, they have a bit of a moat.

4) Corolla / Camry / RAV4: EV leases and used EVs getting really cheap w/ long warranties.
Logical buyers and price seekers may begin to switch, especially with lower running cost.
This makes the Toyota buyer more conservative, likely with worse credit, and newer to the country.

[EvoFire]

^I want your old job, it sounds fun.

The Accord/Camry/Civic/Corolla crowd will always exists, be it old men like us or new immigrants where this is what they drove, just 20 years older.

I don't know if the T4R will really be for more price sensitive folks. With the still not great fuel economy and if it's just a mall crawler, it makes the Highlander or Venza a much more appealing choice.

[AstulzerRZD]

T4R will work for the same reason SUVs sell better than minivans - people got an innate desire to feel cool.
Venza is scrap the way that Macy's is - there's no place for upscale but not yet luxury brands in N/A; it's more an asian thing these days.

You really don't - it's like 40k pay for intern or like 70-80k pay for full timers
Can't really make impact cuz the decisions are made by Japan.
Margins are too tight in automotive, only grocery/restaurant is worse.

[noclue]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

T4R will work for the same reason SUVs sell better than minivans - people got an innate desire to feel cool.
Venza is scrap the way that Macy's is - there's no place for upscale but not yet luxury brands in N/A; it's more an asian thing these days.

You really don't - it's like 40k pay for intern or like 70-80k pay for full timers
Can't really make impact cuz the decisions are made by Japan.
Margins are too tight in automotive, only grocery/restaurant is worse.

Why didn't you persuade HQ to bring the alphard to canada bro. It'll only sell in richmond, richmond hill and markham lmao.

[AstulzerRZD]

Toyota and Honda and Nissan figured out brand name matters in N/A.

I don't think the Alphard will even sell in Richmond / RH / Markham - those products are focused on narrow roads and rear seat experience for adults
The Quest sold incredibly poorly

[Dbone]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

You really don't - it's like 40k pay for intern or like 70-80k pay for full timers
Can't really make impact cuz the decisions are made by Japan.
Margins are too tight in automotive, only grocery/restaurant is worse.

Product planning can also be mega stressful. Forecasting is often off and then the planner has to scramble to sort all that out.

Besides, AI is replacing a lot of the planing work, and the remaining work is often now centralized.

[Badhobz]

theres a ton of alphards in richmond currently. people are scooping them up and it feels like we are driving around in asia

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

T4R will work for the same reason SUVs sell better than minivans - people got an innate desire to feel cool.
Venza is scrap the way that Macy's is - there's no place for upscale but not yet luxury brands in N/A; it's more an asian thing these days.

You really don't - it's like 40k pay for intern or like 70-80k pay for full timers
Can't really make impact cuz the decisions are made by Japan.
Margins are too tight in automotive, only grocery/restaurant is worse.

I guess I'm too Asian? The Venza makes a lot of sense to me because the Rav4 is so bargain basement. Considering how much the NX costs and how not a great car it is, I'm surprised no one buys the Venza more. But like your other post said, the badge matters too much in NA.

I have no problems with buying an Acura or Buick if they put out competent products. The RDX is a good car but there were a few deal breaking foibles with it. The Insignia based Regal was an amazing car but again they hobbled the GS version with it being 2.0T FWD. If only they brought the full fat OPC (I wasn't in the market though, I was too young)

I thought it'd be at least a 100k job based on the analytics required. I guess if you were a manager it'd be a 100k job.

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

Toyota and Honda and Nissan figured out brand name matters in N/A.

I don't think the Alphard will even sell in Richmond / RH / Markham - those products are focused on narrow roads and rear seat experience for adults
The Quest sold incredibly poorly

The Quest was so severely decontented though. It was a far cry from what it's supposed to be.

I do sit back sometimes and think about it though. Vancouver is an odd place that's not at all representative of what NA buying habits are. Nowhere else except maybe parts of California has this kind of EV uptake rate. Most places do not see more BMW/MB/Audi on the street than Toyota/Honda/Ford/Chevy. It's an odd place we are in.

[AstulzerRZD]

Most metro markets are actually more like Vancouver - regional lease deals on MB/BMW are super competitive and often cheaper than Toyota.

IMO people who want nicer than RAV4 tend to take a bigger jump because the Venza's still got a ton of cheap plastic on center console, noisy on highway, etc.

The X3 is RAV4 big, pretty fuel efficient, leases great (0.1% interest with loyalty last month in Canada) ... X3M was cheaper than RAV4 Prime last month.

Acura sells pretty well in Ontario since the buyers want more comfort but rely on their cars so don't want "german reliability".

[EvoFire]

We basically did exactly that, picked a X3 over a Rav4 hybrid. They financed roughly the same but a much more refined package. Can't beat Rav4 utility though, it feels like 0.5 class bigger than the luxury cars.

[AstulzerRZD]

You’re not the only one - the Venza are for old folk who think a Lexus / BMW is too fancy

Pretty sure they sell more corvettes than venzas