2024 Summer Olympics in Paris, France

[Traum]

To me, the core of the issue hinges on whether Khelif is DSD or not. If her biological makeup is providing her with both X and Y chromosomes, then it would be unfair to have her compete in the female category. If she is not DSD, then obviously she would be fully entitled to compete with other females.

So far, Khelif has not commented on the issue, nor has she provided any proof to otherwise confirm or deny whether she is DSD. Because of this, if she goes on to win her boxing matches, the controversy of whether she deservingly won those matches are just going to continue.

The IOC policy failure that I spoke of lies in how IOC did not clearly define the eligibility requirements for the competing athletes to convince the public that the games' outcomes are fair.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by Traum

To me, the core of the issue hinges on whether Khelif is DSD or not. If her biological makeup is providing her with both X and Y chromosomes, then it would be unfair to have her compete in the female category. If she is not DSD, then obviously she would be fully entitled to compete with other females.

So far, Khelif has not commented on the issue, nor has she provided any proof to otherwise confirm or deny whether she is DSD. Because of this, if she goes on to win her boxing matches, the controversy of whether she deservingly won those matches are just going to continue.

The IOC policy failure that I spoke of lies in how IOC did not clearly define the eligibility requirements for the competing athletes to convince the public that the games' outcomes are fair.

"Her biological makeup" is of no concern to the IOC or you, any more than Shaquille O'Neil's "biological makeup" is for being big and tall, or Simone Biles for being small and strong, or Michael Phelps for having a huge number of genetic advantages including a body that produces low levels of lactic acid.

Being a female is what entitles her to compete with females.

I get that people are mad that they can't be mad about a trans boxer, but making shit up about genetic policy is bad boomer behavior. You should reconsider acting that way. You're not protecting female boxers or anyone else, you're just coming up with new ways to exert control over peoples' will.

[Traum]

Respectfully, I disagree with what you are saying here.

If the genetic make up between biological males and biological females do not matter in competitive sports, then all sports competition should be mixed gender and inclusive. But obviously that is absurd.

And while we are at it, we might as well abolish age categories too. Let's mix all the U16, U18, U21 teams along with the adult teams as well as the masters and seniors teams. And include the little leaguer children too, because not doing so would be age discriminatory, right?

I am not gonna call your suggestion woke behaviour in the same way you call mine as "bad boomer behaviour", but I do recommend you to reconsider what you've said just now.

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

"Her biological makeup" is of no concern to the IOC or you, any more than Shaquille O'Neil's "biological makeup" is for being big and tall, or Simone Biles for being small and strong, or Michael Phelps for having a huge number of genetic advantages including a body that produces low levels of lactic acid.

Being a female is what entitles her to compete with females.

I get that people are mad that they can't be mad about a trans boxer, but making shit up about genetic policy is bad boomer behavior. You should reconsider acting that way. You're not protecting female boxers or anyone else, you're just coming up with new ways to exert control over peoples' will.

[SkinnyPupp]

Trying to put limits on peoples natural physiology is not just boomer behavior, it's insane behavior. Thankfully they don't do that.

I'm not going to argue ridiculous logical fallacies about age limits, so let's just leave it at that. Call me woke all you want, I don't care lol.

[MarkyMark]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

"Her biological makeup" is of no concern to the IOC or you, any more than Shaquille O'Neil's "biological makeup" is for being big and tall, or Simone Biles for being small and strong, or Michael Phelps for having a huge number of genetic advantages including a body that produces low levels of lactic acid.

Eh this is combat sports not some chick dunking on a bunch of smaller women. There should be some transparency on what exactly is going on and what the advantages are. If you want to just say "vagina = they have to let her fight" then that's your stance on it I guess. I don't see how it's insane to question something like this.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

Eh this is combat sports not some chick dunking on a bunch of smaller women. There should be some transparency on what exactly is going on and what the advantages are. If you want to just say "vagina = they have to let her fight" then that's your stance on it I guess. I don't see how it's insane to question something like this.

So you've gone from "you used to be a male so you can't fight females" to "you have always been a female, but your hormone levels are too high to fight other females. This is my business"

Yes, that is completely insane. It is unhinged meddling.

Anyway, it's a moot point since you guys can't affect who gets to participate because of whatever "DSD" reasons your favourite podcast came up with. Just keep it on twitter and here I guess.

BTW Canada just won bronze in trampoline

[MarkyMark]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

So you've gone from "you used to be a male so you can't fight females" to "you have always been a female, but your hormone levels are too high to fight other females. This is my business"

Yes, that is completely insane. It is unhinged meddling, and you have gone from transphobia to misogyny. Why not go after male fighters who maybe have a big chest and can throw stronger punches? That could injure someone after all. Yes, it's insane.

BTW Canada just won bronze in trampoline

WTF do you mean saying "you've" gone from transphobia to misogyny what did I say that was transphobic?

What business is it of yours to tell the women getting punched in the head by her that they are cowards and should just shut the fuck up about it?

[pastarocket]

Go Team Canada! Watching the men's basketball game between Canada vs. Spain now.

The CBC Olympics app is pretty good. Thank goodness for working from home today haha.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

WTF do you mean saying "you've" gone from transphobia to misogyny what did I say that was transphobic?

What business is it of yours to tell the women getting punched in the head by her that they are cowards and should just shut the fuck up about it?

You = the people arguing about this boxer

I didn't say anyone should "shut the fuck up" about losing a boxing match.

[MarkyMark]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

You = the people arguing about this boxer

I didn't say anyone should "shut the fuck up" about losing a boxing match.

Well you called them a loser and seem to think no one has a right to say anything about this or they are some insane misogynistic boomer so I dunno...

There's two sides to this, the crazy twitter people calling her a man, and the actual truth which is a very gray area in my opinion.

[CivicBlues]

Trans people in sports and RS:

[pastarocket]

Canada beats Spain 88-85 in men's basketball! Undefeated in their group A.

Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and RJ Barrett were clutch in this game, especially in the last three minutes. Huge 3 pointer from Barrett to help Canada maintain a lead with about a minute left in the game.

The Spaniards are tough. Their bench scored over 50 of their points. Although Canada has more NBA players than Spain, the Spanish played hard until the end of the game.

On to the quarterfinals for Canada! Hopefully, they can play the weakest team they can get depending of the outcome of other games today.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

Trans people in sports and RS:

She's not even trans lol.. This is a new level of derangement we're seeing. They are mad about a "gray area" now!

[MarkyMark]

Dude cheering for women having to fight people with abnormally high test and all the advantages that come with it and calling other people deranged gotta love it

Enjoy yourself bruh

[Tim Budong]

Originally Posted by pastarocket

Canada beats Spain 88-85 in men's basketball! Undefeated in their group A.

Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and RJ Barrett were clutch in this game, especially in the last three minutes. Huge 3 pointer from Barrett to help Canada maintain a lead with about a minute left in the game.

The Spaniards are tough. Their bench scored over 50 of their points. Although Canada has more NBA players than Spain, the Spanish played hard until the end of the game.

On to the quarterfinals for Canada! Hopefully, they can play the weakest team they can get depending of the outcome of other games today.

I wanna see a US vs Canada in the gold medal game.

That would be bonkers

[AzNightmare]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

Shaquille O'Neil's "biological makeup" is for being big and tall, or Simone Biles for being small and strong, or Michael Phelps for having a huge number of genetic advantages including a body that produces low levels of lactic acid.

Initially I was outraged as these kind of topics of transwomen competeing as women do trigger me. But after more research from what I'm aware of, I have changed my stance since what it comes down for me is whether Imane enhanced herself through any "modifications" or not. And it sounds like she didn't. She's just born genetically "gifted" with higher levels of testosterone, which makes it no different than the examples listed above like Michael Phelps which gave him an edge over his competition. It just so happens Phelps is a man. Should he have been disqualified or put in his own category that's above men? Hypothetic "mutant" division?

Originally Posted by Traum

If the genetic make up between biological males and biological females do not matter in competitive sports, then all sports competition should be mixed gender and inclusive. But obviously that is absurd.

But it's such a gray area. Some women are born with more testosterone and that's outside of their control. Where do you draw the line? If a person was born female and never did anything unnatural to her body, then how can she not be considered a female to compete as a female?


---

The first girl quit after taking a couple shots in the face. It set up a perfect narrative, but in hindsight, she also sounds like a quitter considering Imane just had her 2nd fight, the other controversial boxer Liu Yu-ting had her fight, and they all went the length to a decision, rather than an easy 1st round win.

I'll leave this here:

Twitter X

[MarkyMark]

The only thing I'll say about that is Phelps swimming in a pool isn't giving someone else brain damage. There's a reason men excel in basically every sport compared to women and that's testosterone. You're talking a difference in muscle mass, strength, bone density, the amount of force you can put behind a punch compared to a regular woman in the same weight class.

Anyways people will have different opinions on this, I'm not gonna call you insane cause you don't agree with me

[Traum]

I agree it's a gray area, and that makes it difficult to draw the line. But seeing how competitive sports has always "drawn the line" between males and females, it seems entirely appropriate to use biological gender as the marker to draw that line. And what determines biological gender? It's whether your cells carry an XY chromosome pair, or an XX chromosome pair.

In Khelif's case, there is no concrete evidence to suggest that she has DSD, although there is inconclusive evidence to suggest that IBA might have said Khelif has DSD. This is why I said that everything hinges on whether Khelif (or any other female competitor) has DSD or not. If she does not have DSD, then obviously she should be competing in the female category.

But if she has DSD, then even though she has done nothing to "modify" herself to be a female, unfortuantely she does not meet the criteria to compete in the female category if we use biological gender (ie. the natural presences of XX or XY chromosome pairs in body cells) as the deciding factor.

The next step from here becomes even more complicated and messy. How would the IOC determine whether a female competitor has DSD or not? In the case of performance enhancing drugs, the solution is to test every single competitor to indicate there is no bias or discrimination. But if you adopt the same approach to test all female athletes for DSD, it is gonna be an absolute PR disaster in every imaginable way.

All in all, it's just one big giant mess.

Originally Posted by AzNightmare

But it's such a gray area. Some women are born with more testosterone and that's outside of their control. Where do you draw the line? If a person was born female and never did anything unnatural to her body, then how can she not be considered a female to compete as a female?

[Hondaracer]

lol I love how this is some libtard hill to die on as demonstrated here.

You are banned by the commissions that regulate the sport, you’ve been banned from previous events, the IOC didn’t even know what to do with you

And people question damn.. is there sonthing to this??

“TRANSPHOBIC BIGGOT!!!”

Like jfc.. swear like this shit isn’t even setup by the “right” it was some liberal dog whistle bullshit to start calling people out who would even question it based on the fact provided? lol

[donk.]

You guys should go hangout on dave st today, all yore burning questions about grey areas will be answered

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

lol I love how this is some libtard hill to die on as demonstrated here.

You are banned by the commissions that regulate the sport, you’ve been banned from previous events, the IOC didn’t even know what to do with you

And people question damn.. is there sonthing to this??

“TRANSPHOBIC BIGGOT!!!”

Like jfc.. swear like this shit isn’t even setup by the “right” it was some liberal dog whistle bullshit to start calling people out who would even question it based on the fact provided? lol

Your ignorance is being harvested by the right. Don't let it.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by AzNightmare

The first girl quit after taking a couple shots in the face. It set up a perfect narrative

After more info came out, that the Italian boxer is a far right cop, I wouldn't be shocked if she planned all along to take a dive after taking her first hit, or got into trouble.

She "apologized" without taking anything back, saying she basically has to go by the IOC rules. (which don't apply here, since there are no rules forbidding cis women from boxing other cis women, even if they are tall and strong)

The whole thing is a farce being set up to make people angry. And as you can see it's working. Even here. We some really angry people getting mad about "liberal dog whistling" and "libtard hills to die on" and writing in all caps about being called bigoted.

They FEAST on these people. It's how something like Trump or The Brothers of Italy being in power can even happen at all.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

After more info came out, that the Italian boxer is a far right cop, I wouldn't be shocked if she planned all along to take a dive after taking her first hit, or got into trouble.

And now you are totally getting into conspiracy theories of your own.

This is the Olympics, not your local track and field meet that happens somewhere close by every 2 months. Even though female boxing may not be the most popular or common sports around, getting selected to represent your country at the highest level of competition is still not going to be an easy feat. Esp for physical sports, if you have one shot at the Olympics, you take it and you give it everything you've got because you are going to be a different athlete the next Olympics come around. In Carini's case, she is 25 years old now, which basically means she is at her physical peak. Even if she can qualify for the Olympics again next time, it is highly questionable whether she will be as strong a boxer as she is now.

And then there is the training and conditioning to get into Olympic form -- serious athletes would likely come up with their high level training plan a year or two in advance. And then there are the years of hard work before reaching the national level. No athlete in the right mind would throw all of that training and effort away by intentionally planning to dive ahead of their match.

So don't be ridiculous to suggest something so ridiculous. It is beneath you.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by Traum

And now you are totally getting into conspiracy theories of your own.

I just said I wouldn't be shocked. Don't try to make any more of it than that. It was a joke, which I'm sure you knew. Just like people knew when jokes were made about Trump's shooting being staged. It's all obviously lampooning that nothing is too ridiculous to believe in a post 2016 world.

And BTW the only reason you're going after this person now is because of the accusations of her being trans. Without that, everyone would be fine with her just like they were at the last Olympics. Just like nobody goes after any random rugby player who is huge and strong in a physical sport because of genetics or whatever.

She was the same person then that she is now, but this time the usual suspects on twitter got all the people to pile on with hatred and ignorance because someone quit a match 45 seconds in. And after it got disproven, it just has to continue for whatever reason. Now it's "grey area" and "genetics" an "DND" or whatever

All this talk about categories of "genetics" as if you care about genetics.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

The only thing I'll say about that is Phelps swimming in a pool isn't giving someone else brain damage. There's a reason men excel in basically every sport compared to women and that's testosterone. You're talking a difference in muscle mass, strength, bone density, the amount of force you can put behind a punch compared to a regular woman in the same weight class.

Anyways people will have different opinions on this, I'm not gonna call you insane cause you don't agree with me

So is the solution for women with the wrong genetics to fight men instead of other women?