AstulzerRZD Adventure Thread

[AstulzerRZD]

I am also job hunting - Upper management didn't approve my promotion so I'm on the hunt.

I'm in my late 20s, looking to work at a company where I genuinely care about the customers (currently just software developers).
I have promising inbound opportunities but need to focus on landing roles I truly want.

Goals:
1) Learn from inspiring Product Managers for a couple of years.
2) Explore side projects/startup ideas to prepare for a startup accelerator.
3) Network to find potential technical cofounders.

Concerns:
1) Burnout if I don't connect with coworkers or customers.
2) Securing the right opportunities, experiences, and mentorship.
3) Improving cross-organization collaboration and communication.

Similar to BIC_BAWS request:
What was your personal experience choosing between pay and passion?
How could you see the following 3 jobs working for me in late 20s/early 30s?

Option 1 (Recruiter contacted me)
- Fit for Experience: Exact fit
- Highlights: Reputable big company, internal developers
- Location: NYC in person
- Total Compensation: $350K , cash bonus
- Customer Base: software developers internal to the company

Option 2 (Have referral)
- Fit for Experience: Pretty good fit, with learning curve
- Highlights: Grindy startup culture, high hiring bar, well known web app
- Location: Remote with NYC office, SF HQ
- TC: $300K, RSUs, Acquisition got blocked
- Customer Base: Designers

Option 3
- Fit for Experience: Not an exact fit
- Highlights: Profitable & well-known consumer app
- Location: NY office, HQ in Pittsburgh
- TC: $250K (same as current)
- Customer Base: Consumer users - language learning/sports

[supafamous]

Copy and pasting from the other thread:

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

I am also job hunting - Upper management didn't approve my promotion so I'm on the hunt.

I'm in my late 20s, looking to work at a company where I genuinely care about the customers (currently just software developers).
I have promising inbound opportunities but need to focus on landing roles I truly want.

Goals:
1) Learn from inspiring Product Managers for a couple of years.
2) Explore side projects/startup ideas to prepare for a startup accelerator.
3) Network to find potential technical cofounders.

Concerns:
1) Burnout if I don't connect with coworkers or customers.
2) Securing the right opportunities, experiences, and mentorship.
3) Improving cross-organization collaboration and communication.

Similar to BIC_BAWS request:
What was your personal experience choosing between pay and passion?
How could you see the following 3 jobs working for me in late 20s/early 30s?

I never cared much about pay or passion - I just chose to work at places where I could learn a lot and where I thought I'd like the people. The thing with pay is that it's so much anyways that an extra $50k isn't meaningful and the thing with passion is that there's so much BS that happens at work that it can really extinguish the excitement you have for your passion. I also didn't care much about the industry either - it's so much of the same shit, different container.

For my last few jobs I had a list of things I cared about learning and I sought jobs that gave me those things. For example, 2 jobs ago I decided that I needed to get more hands-on as a product leader - I had been managing big teams (15 directs) and had become more of an administrator and my craft was rusty. I looked for a job where my team would be smaller and that I would get to do some hands-on work so I could "sharpen my knife". I was also sick and tired of reporting to the CEO (or c-suite) so I looked for something that kept me a couple degrees removed from the CEO.

That all said, the two things I tell early career tech workers when thinking about their whole career is:

1. Go work at a place with a really high bar so you know what the standard can be. When you work at small places the bar is always lower b/c you work with inexperienced people and the processes are missing. Go work at a place where the talent bar for people and process is really high for a few years. You'll probably meet a few people that become future mentors or who you will always look up to (I worked with a Director of Eng at Amazon that was so capable and intelligent that I aspired to be just 10% as good as him). Too many people end up not working with the people of the highest tier in their lives and then get upset that their career is not progressing - well the problem is they aren't setting a high enough bar for themselves.

2. Go work at a small, scrappy place where you have to wear many hats and get to learn the whole business. Learn the value of relationship building, understand company financials, know how the sausage gets made across a company.

[AstulzerRZD]

Too many people end up not working with the people of the highest tier in their lives and then get upset that their career is not progressing - well the problem is they aren't setting a high enough bar for themselves.

I'm hearing smaller team, crazy high craft, wide scope - that's really helpful.

I finally got an awesome manager this year and received craft feedback for the first time in my life.
Big tech is highly matrixed (my team especially), with variable standards and heavy communication needed for buy-in and execution.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

I'm hearing smaller team, crazy high craft, wide scope - that's really helpful.

I finally got an awesome manager this year and received craft feedback for the first time in my life.
Big tech is highly matrixed (my team especially), with variable standards and heavy communication needed for buy-in and execution.

Yeah, big tech is "political" - so many moving parts, so many dependencies etc that makes shipping really hard. You'll learn a bunch of things but they may not be things you truly want to learn (being a good politician means you'll end up in management and be hands-off but maybe you want to have big scope and high impact as an IC).

[BIC_BAWS]

Yeah starting a new thread for this would have been more appropriate I think. While it falls in line with my initial posts about success / careers / happiness, I feel like you'll get better traction and on topic answers here.

You've always been that great source of inspiration for me. You're the Richmond high school grad that made it. I know most of your initial story, but it would be great to hear more about your journey in your 20s.

I'm surprised you're thinking of jumping ship (and also I thought your TC was a lot higher, granted USD). I assumed the place that you're at is the place to be at, and from what I hear you are a critical member in the organization.

There's plenty of smart, rich and successful people on RS. It's always fascinating to me to see how you have all made it here.

Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk

[Badhobz]

how old are you again bro? if you're under 25, go for the big money because you can still change and adapt. Even if shit hits the fan.

If you're inching closer to 30, Id say get something a bit more stable and see if you can increase total compensation from moving up. Building a good work/life relationship is important. Even more important the older you get.

$ per hour vs total actual hours worked is what you're really looking for.

[AstulzerRZD]

At 28, I’m privileged and very fortunate to have an ok nest egg saved up in equities (~250k retirement, 250k liquid USD).

I feel like I should still focus on growth because I feel there's a significant gap between my current skills and where high level operators and founders are.
Is it silly to prioritize this rather than work/life balance?

I have a fear of being a career employee, as I worry that eventually, you become a liability.
Is it silly to think that I'd have more stability/optionality by building enough craft and experience to found my own product if I want to?

A successful application to YC in the next couple years is a big goal of mine.

[CivicBlues]

Don't have much to say other than nice humblebrag BrO and I don't think you'll get much good actionable advice here as you're probably making more than 90% of an already high income demographic.

Who among us can say we're making close to CAD $500K on a single income? Jesus christ

But good on you for being in this position so early in your life and I'm sure you'll be fine with whatever you choose.

[Badhobz]

Well you are in tech.. that gravy train has ended since the pandemic. You probably need as many of those certificates as possible to keep you from being redundant (especially since AI is already here).

So yes, focus on growth but god damn you're gonna give up the prime years of your life doing all this schooling.

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

Who among us can say we're making close to CAD $500K on a single income? Jesus christ

doesn't hehaw give away 50k USD in a single red envelope ?!?

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by Badhobz

Well you are in tech.. that gravy train has ended since the pandemic. You probably need as many of those certificates as possible to keep you from being redundant (especially since AI is already here).

So yes, focus on growth but god damn you're gonna give up the prime years of your life doing all this schooling.

doesn't hehaw give away 50k USD in a single red envelope ?!?

I'm pretty lucky to be an early AI PM with a few AI feature launches under my belt.
All of my inbound's been related to that work.

I think the question is more how I can develop other fundamentals (marketing, growth, etc) to round out my craft, secure my career, and be able to start something of my own

[Badhobz]

id go option 1. big companies are nice because you can hide away if you want to. Just turn into Milton from office space.

Small little startups are always finicky; the smaller the org, the more personalities drive your workplace happiness.

[bcrdukes]

Donate your life savings to BIC_BAWS

[radeonboy]

I'd also go with option 1 - cash is king at your age and I think it's best to milk it as long as you can. Continue growing your nest egg until you find yourself with a startup accelerator opportunity.

You mentioned wanting to grow by rounding out your craft - it's likely the large option 1 company will have the right people to mentor you. If not, you have a world-class talent pool in New York and I'm sure someone in your network can connect you if you want to get a head start on that.

[AstulzerRZD]

Option 1 is along the lines of Bloomberg CTO office/DataDog.
Established companies that have a need for AI strategy / execution.

Option 2 is something like Figma/Notion/Asana/Airtable
Crazy good product craft with senior openings for AI.
AI experience is the leg I'm standing on, passing these interviews is a stretch and the product bar is high.

Option 3 is stuff like Duolingo/Mindbody/Stitchfix/Strava.
I think they're dope.

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

Don't have much to say other than nice humblebrag BrO and I don't think you'll get much good actionable advice here as you're probably making more than 90% of an already high income demographic.

Who among us can say we're making close to CAD $500K on a single income? Jesus christ

But good on you for being in this position so early in your life and I'm sure you'll be fine with whatever you choose.

bro i am actually so lost and unsure of myself here

y'all did such a great job creating space and guiding for BIC BAWS through his thoughts, I'm here cuz that was really dope.

It’s not about the money – it’s that y'all have got way more career experience and have had to make these tough decisions before.

[Traum]

I don't remember what your relationship situation is like, or what your goals might be on that front. But at late 20's / early 30's, it is something you should think about if you haven't already done so. And how big a portion of your time work would take up needs to be taken into consideration as well.

[EvoFire]

I think you need to figure out if you want to keep being hands on or become a manager/director/C suite.

I'm in a similar state and I actually PMed Supa awhile back looking for specific advice. I've actually sought out various ppl in my life for advice on what to do.

Some of the points that have stood out is.

Write down what you are looking for - figure out what attributes are valuable to you in a job, in a company, and ask about these in your interview.

Figure out what you want to do - is it hands on? Is it a technical leadership role? Is it a people leadership role? For my role in tech I have something like 2 and a half branches I can take.
Architect - technical IC, you make the call on how things are supposed to work, probably doesn't apply to you too much as you are in the PM space
Technical Lead - Fully immersed in your technical team, and being a part of day-to-day work while providing guidance
People Manager - Strictly dealing with people and growth, less technical hands on, or even none at all.

For a PM, do you want to be the one that's dictating overall product direction, or do you want to being involved with the details of individual functions? Do you just want to manage all the PMs? It's a question you need to answer and try to take the necessary steps to make your goal.

It sounds like you would be at a crossroad to choose a path soon, if not now.

I pushed it off for a long time as I tried to chase money in a small market in Vancouver. I didn't have a nest egg and I needed the money to make things happen in my life and I didn't care about the job title. The job title bit is biting me in the ass right now as the roles I want, I don't have the titles to even warrant a look, despite having done all the job descriptions and I have no problems doing any of the work.

[bcrdukes]

I'm going to leave this here. Good for you mid-career folk and high achievers.

https://designingyour.life/

[CivicBlues]

What about us mid-career low achievers?
Given how much RS threads are moving on a Friday morning I'm sure there's more than a few of us

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

What about us mid-career low achievers?
Given how much RS threads are moving on a Friday morning I'm sure there's more than a few of us

The less work the better.

[donk.]

The real question, since this is an adventure thread, is why have you not purchased an old JDM car with some of that pocket change. Or even old american/german muscle car. Cobra, gtr, nsx, r8, porsché, whatever

[AstulzerRZD]

Car wise?
I drove for the formula team at uni so have had my fix.
Street car wise, an adventure to a Vegas track day killed R8/981/991 plans for me.
Would have to be a Performante/458.

Location wise?
Live in NYC where garage parking is 800/mo and so is insurance.
Probably more likely to join Manhattan Classic Car Club since it's less than that monthly.

I've got a couple S2k I can borrow in Queens if I really want.
Buddy races AER/86 cup and has a giant driveway full of random stuff ... he lent me the E63 in bio for a full month

[Badhobz]

I was 26 when i bought my gran turismo. i don't know how you can NOT buy a car at that age with that income. that's prime time to wanna buy insane cars for massive flexing and endless parade of skanks.

Now look at me... I'm geezerfied and drive hitlerboxes and corollas around.

you wanna be me!? hUH !?!? DO YOU!?!??! you want like fucking 3 strands of homer simpsons hair left and a belly full of fat/regret? HUH!?!?!

GO LIVE YOUR LIFE YOU YOUNG BUCK. go buy shit, go bang shit, go fuck up, and do it all over again until you've had your fill.

here's some career advice. which one of those out of 3 is the easiest job that you can fuck off and go snort coke off a hookers ass while you pretend to do work? that's the one you should choose.

[AstulzerRZD]

on spending, I think already do too much of it
rent is a fat 2.7k
went to brazil, peru, italy, and france this year
tried the whole equinox, rimowa, whatever BS
had my nightclub era before I collected enough besties so we got tables for free

on the car...
blew my mind - i pulled more in Europe with my shitty 63hp Fiat 500 hybrid rental in 3 days
than with s2k in 2 years

[Badhobz]

it'll amaze you how fast it goes. i remember it clearly.... one day I was your age and BLINK, here I am middle aged.

Trust me, try not to waste it chasing the career ladder. Have enough money that you can fuel your lifestyle and that's all you need man. Anything more wont really bring you exponential happiness.

Ive been through your shit. I've been a very poor man, I've been a rich man and I choose NOTHING.

Fuck both. just be yourself. I got money now... i still dont give a fuck, Kirkland 4 life baby. If I die tomorrow I have 0 regrets.