SkinnyPupp's Adventures in Watchmaking

[underscore]

Have you tried any anti-fog sprays or wipes? Or even the old scuba trick, spit in it, wipe it around and then rinse it out.

[68style]

Spittin on it before Hawk Tuah made it cool

[SkinnyPupp]

So this might explain some weird timings (can't believe it worked at all!)

[Badhobz]

i dont even know wtf im looking at but its all pretty neat stuff. i love tiny itty bitty stuff!!!

your wife: WTF YOU DOING!?!?!

you: what what!? I'm lubricating this tiny movement

your wife: heh.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by Badhobz

i dont even know wtf im looking at but its all pretty neat stuff. i love tiny itty bitty stuff!!!

your wife: WTF YOU DOING!?!?!

you: what what!? I'm lubricating this tiny movement

your wife: heh.

That is the 'fourth wheel' which rotates once every 60 seconds. So when a watch has a seconds hand, it attaches to this wheel somehow

This movement, being basically an old pocket watch movement, has a post on it that goes right through the dial, which you put the seconds hand on directly. On the dial the hand will be beside the 9 o'clock (most would have this at the 6 o'clock, like the Rolex 1908 I posted above)

My watch does not have a seconds hand. So when Panerai orders their movements for this model, they get a version of this wheel that doesn't have this post. But the Chinese version of the movement only has one version of the wheel, so if you want to put it in a watch with no seconds hand, you have to cut that post shorter. Otherwise you can't put the dial on

The one on the right was my first attempt at doing this last year with no real tools. I used a file to shorten it, but it looks like I broke it right off. Also I cracked the jewel that it sat in. The thing actually worked somewhat, but would stop after a few minutes.

So the first thing I did was move the bridge over from the original movement that came with my watch with the non broken jewel, but kept this wheel. It worked, and had great overall timing, but when you look at the graph, the watch slows down and speeds up over the course of one minute. This is what gave away that something is wrong with this particular wheel

The one on the left is the one that came with my watch, snipped by whoever put the replica together. Yesterday I moved that wheel over too, and it runs perfect now.

What's keeping my latest build from perfect is that there is now a 1.0 ms beat error that I have to figure out. In reality this is irrelevant, but I know it can hit 0 so I want to get there.

Today I am going to re-lube the balance jewels - this is the hardest part of a basic service by far. I managed to do it the first time, but I probably didn't do a good job, and the oil probably touched the edge of the 1.3mm jewel. It has to stay in the middle. This will take a lot of practice to get right, but I am down.

If that doesn't fix it, I have to try regulating the beat error out. Not too hard on this type of movement, but I haven't tried that before

Edit: Regulated, this is dial down (all other positions good except dial up, which is probably due to bad balance jewel lube)

[underscore]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

re-lube the balance jewels

[SkinnyPupp]

Walked right into that one

[SkinnyPupp]

Did another service today, with a couple goals in mind

1) Do it using no reference whatsoever
2) Oil the balance springs again (this is the hardest thing to do by far)

#1 achieved! Had no problem putting this simple movement together in the right order (which can be important for some parts) and even remembered the correct direction of the click

#2 was tough. First of all I lost an end cap jewel, so I had to take one from the donor. (also lost one of the smaller screws, so I took that as well)

This is what Incabloc springs look like when opened



See that brass fork looking thing sticking up? That is about 0.7mm wide at the tip, and oh by the way it is a spring. The slightest bit of torsion will cause it to jump (and how much torsion do you think it takes to wind a <1mm spring that is microns thick?).

Oh, and it's not really attached to anything, it just wedges in at the base as you can see. If it gets twisted by more than a few microns, with another few microns of force going in another direction, it will slip out. I think you can see where this is going.

It took a long time, but I was able to get it back in. Furthermore, oiling the end caps went much smoother this time (minus the lost jewel). It took a couple tries, but I was able to get the oil centered, and drop the chaton on top without the oil leaking out towards the side. This keeps a pocket of oil suspended right over the pivot, which results in as little friction as possible. Importantly, both sides should have the same amount of oil (a drop about 700 microns wide).

There are easier methods using expensive automatic oilers, but I am learning to do it the old school way, to improve my overall dexterity. If I can do this well, I will be able to do much more, and when I get to do this as work, I can use the tool efficiently.

It takes about a day for everything to settle in to be able to regulate the timing, but it's looking good so far. We'll see.

I ordered some stuff as well - a clone of the ETA 2824-2 movement which is in approximately 10 billion Swiss watches around the world. Seriously, if you see a watch with legit Swiss branding on it, chances are it has this movement, or a Swiss clone of it from Sellita. It's more modern and a lot smaller than what I have here, and has an automatic winding system and a calendar to learn with.

I also ordered a replacement mainspring for one of these 6497's. The amplitude is really low, so I want to see if a legit Swiss spring helps. It's less than $10 so whatever. If it goes well, it will go into my watch. This also gives me something to learn - replacing a mainspring.

[Badhobz]

This is super neat. I don’t know how you guys have the patience for such an endeavour

I “tried” to “fix” my broken 1957 seagull chronograph and it ended up in a trash with a million little pieces everywhere. I laughed while I manically smashed all the tiny pieces into an “outsiders” art piece.

https://youtu.be/3Zh37GjeJYw?si=acPbFggt2F1lz6-Z

[SkinnyPupp]

It feels really cool to get these things working, even these little problems I am solving. Even cleaning and oiling! I imagine taking an old beat up watch and making it run well is the ultimate rewarding experience. I'll have to give that a shot pretty soon

Without magnification, forget it. Most stuff like disassembly and assembly I just use the 2.5x glasses but anything where you're manipulating these tiny parts, I have to use the 15x loupe (which sucks because I hate using it)

[SkinnyPupp]

Oh man I was about to have my best rebuild today.. Last time I practiced oiling the escape wheel, and while I didn't do a perfect job, it improved the amplitude tremendously.

Today I did a much better job of that, and oiling the rest, I even cleaned the pallet stones, going for the best timings possible. And all I had to do was deal with those shock settings again

Apparently these fake Incabloc springs come out very easily, so you're not really supposed to hinge them up like I do in the photo above. The smallest twist (like 0.1mm) will cause them to fall out.

So it happened again, and while I was trying to get it back in, ping! Off it went, nowhere to be found.

No problem, I have a spare. Ping! It's gone too. Dammit

So I ordered another one of these movements (for 150 RMB on Taobao, about $20 USD. Much cheaper than AliExpress where they are at least $30) and I'll try to be even more careful with this one.

If I can get it to run perfectly, I am putting it in my watch to be used full time, and the one in my watch will become my practice movement.

I also ordered a clone of the ETA 2824-2, the workhorse movement I think I wrote about a while ago. A version of it's in pretty much every "Swiss made" watch you know of that is between maybe $1000 and $5000.

[SkinnyPupp]

Good news, I found BOTH brass springs under my desk! I can't believe it. I'll try installing it tomorrow, being extra careful not to grab it by the sides with the tweezers (I think this is what sends them flying)

New movement came in, based on the ETA 2824-2 workhorse movement. I was not ready for how small it is! Here it is compared to what I've been working on. I resized the image to approximate real dimensions at arm's length. If you're viewing on a monitor with proper DPI it should be about the same on your screen. If you're viewing on a phone, get off the toilet and get back to work!:

[Badhobz]

arrgh this is so neat. I cant wait for you to turn into RB and start Frankenstine-ing watches together into a mish mash of epicness.

[68style]

I took a Citizen that I really like apart awhile back before I moved and lost the tiniest screw in the world in a shag rug... never found it even taking the rug and shaking it out before I skeedaddled off to Calgary. The watch is still sitting here unassembled and making me sad lol... '

I know the pain so well though, I took every precaution working in a barrier area so the screws couldn't fly out when I picked them up with my admittedly barbarian level tweezers and somehow it still looped up in the air high enough to clear everything and disappear into the ether.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by 68style

I took a Citizen that I really like apart awhile back before I moved and lost the tiniest screw in the world in a shag rug... never found it even taking the rug and shaking it out before I skeedaddled off to Calgary. The watch is still sitting here unassembled and making me sad lol... '

I know the pain so well though, I took every precaution working in a barrier area so the screws couldn't fly out when I picked them up with my admittedly barbarian level tweezers and somehow it still looped up in the air high enough to clear everything and disappear into the ether.

I didn't mention it, but I actually lost the canon pinion of that new movement, just being stupid while handling it. That's how I found those two springs, while looking for something else.

I couldn't find this thing with a flashlight though, so I vacuumed my room, emptied it out into a bag (hooray for Dyson vacuums), and swished a magnet around in the dirt and was able to recover it.

My next workshop is going to be clear and free of clutter, so it should be easier to recover things. I decided I won't touch that new movement until I'm set up in there.

[rb]

Having a decent magnet around is your friend for finding lost movement screws lol. I also only work on watches around bare floors. No carpets or rugs around

[SkinnyPupp]

OK so my sister has pretty much cleared the room. I need to disassemble a bed and some furniture and then I'll be able to move in and get going!

I've been servicing the ST3600 every day, sometimes a couple times, getting better at it every time. I can lube those end caps pretty decently now, and I have figured out how to handle the shitty fake Incabloc springs. I stick a tiny piece of Rodico at the base, so it can't fling around when opened. These things do not like to be opened all the way, which makes placing the jewels something of a challenge.

I replaced a mainspring and that was an adventure. When I opened the barrel the damn thing popped out at me! I have seen people do it a million times on Youtube and it's rare, but it happened to me on my first try lol. Luckily I was able to find the cap and barrel arbor no problem

So I installed the new generic (allegedly) Swiss mainspring and... No real difference. The biggest difference I get is when I properly lubricate the escape wheel, and that's a pretty tough one to do, but a lot more fun than the shock settings, as there's little risk of losing something.

TODAY I took my old ST3600 that came with the Panerai, gave it a full clean in naphtha and alcohol, and assembled it with most of its original parts except the balance (as mentioned earlier, the spring came right off the stud, and that is an advanced repair, if possible at all)

This thing is running great so far! Testing timings immediately after building is kind of pointless as it takes about a day to get everything running smoothly, but I always check just to make sure something isn't fucked. And even at this point, the amplitude is in the 280's when the dial is flat! And this is with the old mainspring.. After final testing and regulation tomorrow, I'll stick that (alleged) Swiss spring in there and finally see if it makes a difference.

[SkinnyPupp]

304 degrees dial up lol



This is on the border of TOO much. So it turns out the best result was from using parts from both movements? Interesting

Delta should still be in the 9 second range as usual (that's the time between the fastest and slowest position). From what I understand, out of the 6 main positions, you try to lean towards dial up, crown left (6 up), crown down (9 up) then narrowing down to 0/0 seconds per day, for best real world accuracy

This is the spec sheet for the original ETA 6497-2



So unless trying to get COSC certification, they test these 3 positions: CH = cadran (dial) high, 9H = 9 high, 6H = 6 high

Max delta for this movement is 15 seconds, so we're already ahead of that. We see the max amplitude is 320 so we're safe there.

Oh BTW I also modded my loupe by poking a few holes in it with a soldering iron. 2 wasn't quite enough, but 3 works great! I am going to go back and file the rough spots down.

It makes it a million times more usable, but I still prefer the 3.5x mag for both eyes when doing general assembly and disassembly. 5x and 12x really helps when doing fine work though. I will eventually get a microscope for that

[rb]

Good stuff. I don't have the patience for movement work and accuracy tuning. This is why I work on and sell vintage stuff as no one really cares how accurate they are lol

[SkinnyPupp]

I've been trawling the Japanese auction sites for vintage watches, for my first vintage project, and also looking at getting one for my wife as a gift.

You can get some nice looking manual wind women's watches for around $100-150 USD. Men's go for much higher, which shows you who is buying these lol

Some listings say they are working, but who knows. I want to get her something pre-Quartz Swiss, from a brand that she's be familiar with as a normie. Omega is the obvious choice, and there's tons of options from them (second only to Seiko maybe). I'd consider Universal Geneve as well, as they have some beautiful watches from that era, and their brand has not gone down the shitter, more that it disappeared. Personally I'd be fine with a vintage Longines or Tissot or even Movado, but come on. She's not going to appreciate that

Maybe this is just wishful thinking, and only something I should consider with much more experience though. I'll place some bids and see what happens.

[rb]

Search for vintage watch lots on ebay. Some decent projects on there for a good price. Just do buy the ones from Pakistan or India though

As for ladies watches, If you brought this up 2yrs ago, I would have sent you over a 1lb bag of watches lol. I was liquidating over 500 ladies watches for a watch hoarder friend. Tudor, Tissot, Longines, Omega & various other vintage ladies swiss branded watches. Couldn't get even $20/each for it. I get asked all the time to help someone sell off their grandmothers watch. Unless its solid gold or silver for scrap value, I dont touch it. Women dont buy used vintage watches

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by rb

Search for vintage watch lots on ebay. Some decent projects on there for a good price. Just do buy the ones from Pakistan or India though

As for ladies watches, If you brought this up 2yrs ago, I would have sent you over a 1lb bag of watches lol. I was liquidating over 500 ladies watches for a watch hoarder friend. Tudor, Tissot, Longines, Omega & various other vintage ladies swiss branded watches. Couldn't get even $20/each for it. I get asked all the time to help someone sell off their grandmothers watch. Unless its solid gold or silver for scrap value, I dont touch it. Women dont buy used vintage watches

Damn let me know if you come across another decent granny watch

I noticed that a lot of the ebay sellers are the same as the ones in Japan, but with a 60% markup. It's good because it gives another batch of buyer feedback

Currently eyeing a nice looking IWC in midnight blue for like $120. After a service and light polish (and on the crystal too) it should look really nice

I just don't know if I want to spend that much on my first attempt. I don't mind trashing one of those granny watches as I learn my way, but I wouldn't want to do it on something I actually want to keep

[SkinnyPupp]

The downside of disassembling and assembling the same cheap $20 movement 30 times in a month



So yeah, without tools to extract broken screws (or even a screw to replace it with) this bridge is toast

You can actually see right through the top of the screw

It's totally fine; I have 3 more here. If it wasn't a cheap thing, this wouldn't have likely happened.

BTW I found out my sister has our grandpa's old pocket watch. I am begging her to send it to me to service lol. She says it runs but the crystal is "broken"

[Eff-1]

I have no clue what is going on here, none of this stuff makes a lick of sense to me.

I just enjoy seeing someone pursuing his passion project and sharing stories with others. I may not understand it, just impressed by it.

[JDMDreams]

Are you doing this for fun? Have you dabbled into modding? Change dials, case, hands etc. Cuz even that seems too fiddly to me. And basically AliExpress watches are so cheap that it's not worth it to piece something together yourself if you even can + there's no resale cuz it's a bespoke watch with China quality parts.

From my experience unless you have a higher end Swiss watch like in-house ISH movements there's no point of servicing the movement cuz it will cost you more than harvesting a ETA from some glycine for like $200 and slapping it in. Seiko, china and miyota are pretty much throw away movements.

Also I've never really had to service a watch as my watches are relatively new, I rotate them, unless you drop it and it stops running.

But good on you for liking the mechanics of it, I just don't have the patience for something so fiddly.