SkinnyPupp's Adventures in Watchmaking

[Hehe]

I should suggest that you buy a GoPro or something and turn this journey of yours into a YT/IG/X/TikTok thing.

There aren't a lot of channel that goes into the basic of Horology. Sure you have channels like Wristwatch Revival that's basically a pro doing his craft. But a channel that does short clips on stuff that explains it, like what does that timegrapher actually does or whatever.

You never know what it'd turn out. LockPickingLawyer started his channel as a way to show people his (amateur back then) work. And he grew into one of the biggest name in lockpicking.

[Manic!]

You have probably already seen this but if you haven't it's an open source watch movement.

https://openmovement.org/

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

Are you doing this for fun? Have you dabbled into modding? Change dials, case, hands etc. Cuz even that seems too fiddly to me. And basically AliExpress watches are so cheap that it's not worth it to piece something together yourself if you even can + there's no resale cuz it's a bespoke watch with China quality parts.

From my experience unless you have a higher end Swiss watch like in-house ISH movements there's no point of servicing the movement cuz it will cost you more than harvesting a ETA from some glycine for like $200 and slapping it in. Seiko, china and miyota are pretty much throw away movements.

Also I've never really had to service a watch as my watches are relatively new, I rotate them, unless you drop it and it stops running.

But good on you for liking the mechanics of it, I just don't have the patience for something so fiddly.

I'm planning on doing this as a career. Modding or putting together a watch from parts bought on AliExpress or other websites hasn't really appealed to me. I am more into the idea of taking something that is of high quality but not in great condition, and getting it to run (and look) as close to brand new as possible. Servicing, repair, even fabrication eventually.

Some watches are "use it and throw it away goods", but that's not the case for everything. People who are buying a mechanical watch with its 400 year old technology over the latest smart watch or even like a G-Shock are generally interested in taking care of what they have. Especially if it costs thousands of dollars. Everyone who goes to the main watch thread, for instance, will care about their watch whether it's a Seiko or a Patek. The same people might have an Apple Watch they would be fine with giving away or throwing in a drawer once the planned obsoletion period is up.

Even with the newest oils, you will want to maintain your watch even if you don't wear it every day. The oil is going to eventually dry up and evaporate away whether it's running or not. And then on those occasions you do use it, your watch will not only not perform as well as it should, it could start generating wear and tear that could cause major issues in the future requiring work th at is a lot more expensive than a basic service. It's a mechanical device like a car - with moving parts that grind against each other, you need to keep it clean and lubricated. With a Seiko sure, run it into the ground and replacing the movement (as long as they're still around) will be the more cost effective way of dealing with it. Once they're not being made, you will be looking at old stock, and that stuff will have to be serviced too. Or you can just throw the watch away

Anyway, the industry is dying for new talent, and they are recruiting like crazy. My only issue is my age. Starting out in your 40's is a huge detriment, especially in countries where age discrimination laws don't exist. But if I keep worrying about that, I'll never succeed. I just have to learn the skill, get really good at it, and go from there. Either someone hires me, or I figure out another way to make it work for me.

Either way, this is something I am really passionate about, something that hasn't happened to me for like 20 years.

[Qmx323]

Your avatar in a watch face with the arms as hands! GOGOGO

[RabidRat]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

Sorry to spam but I am super excited lol.

Man, I'M excited. Your passion for this is amazing.

You should think about capturing this journey on YouTube and monetizing this. It's a great formula: your genuine excitement for the craft, the fact that it's kind of esoteric, the backstory: the relatability of "I work a regular day job but I always wanted to do this and one day I just said fuck it. And it turned out better than I expected!"

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by RabidRat

Man, I'M excited. Your passion for this is amazing.

You should think about capturing this journey on YouTube and monetizing this. It's a great formula: your genuine excitement for the craft, the fact that it's kind of esoteric, the backstory: the relatability of "I work a regular day job but I always wanted to do this and one day I just said fuck it. And it turned out better than I expected!"

There's so many channels like that, from hobbyists. I plan on doing pretty intensive training, so I don't know if I'll have time to do videos

I am planning recording work, at the very least to keep track of how they are put together during disassembly.. So I will have footage

[Vansterdam]

Put me down for one of these !

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/UIKzKD6ATKI

[headhunt3r]

Rb, do you service reps? I have a couple that needs some servicing. I'm in Coquitlam so I'm nearby.

[SkinnyPupp]

Workshop is built and ready to go!

I may post a pic later when the sun comes up.. it doesn't look like much atm. I need to buy a clock for the room (waiting for the next Braun sale) and some posters. I have a Rolex ad saved I want to put up in there, and would LOVE to own this Panerai poster one day



I am waiting for a replacement movement to come in, as for some stupid reason I decided to open that shock spring without the Rodico backing it up, and of course it came out. I tried replacing it, but out of 3 spare springs I had, 2 broke and 1 flew out of orbit.

Lesson learned - ALWAYS use a piece of Rodico when changing that part.

Arriving along with the new movement is a new tool to make oiling these end jewels more efficient:



So basically, instead of taking the jewels apart, oiling one surface, and placing the chaton on top (hoping it doesn't spread the oil to the sides), with this you put the chaton on first, drop some oil onto it, and poke it through the hole with this needle.

The more common method is to use an automatic oiler which also has a small enough needle, but this is $12, those are $75

Probably could have sharpened a $4 regular oiler instead, but, *shrug* this has 3 extra tips. So this is 4 of those I guess you could say.

[JDMDreams]

I'm just curious since you are in HK, will you even make enough to survive? Given how expensive HK is and how far Chinese watch making has come. Micro brands, Ali express watches, wouldn't everyone just send them over to China for cheaper labour service? Cuz if they can build them to this quality I'm sure they can service them too.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

I'm just curious since you are in HK, will you even make enough to survive? Given how expensive HK is and how far Chinese watch making has come. Micro brands, Ali express watches, wouldn't everyone just send them over to China for cheaper labour service? Cuz if they can build them to this quality I'm sure they can service them too.

HK is the second biggest watch market in the world (so per capita it is insanely high), followed by China; I don't need to worry about people in America sending watches in for repair.

The Ali Express watches are functional, but not the market I am looking at serving. Ability to keep time shouldn't be confused with actual quality and long term service. And these are generally not items people would bother maintaining unless they have sentimental value. $15-50 movements are something to practice on, not something to earn a living working on at a small scale.

This may be off topic, but I don't think HK is particularly expensive compared to Vancouver. Some things are typically more expensive (rent, gas, electricity), some are less (basically everything else). On top of that, I think rent over there has caught up with here, based on what friends and family are paying (or renting out themselves). And it looks like groceries are getting up there too. Plus you get taxed like crazy

If I go the brand service technician route, salaries start at $70K USD and go up from there if I were to continue learning. Going beyond technician would likely involve moving to another country anyway (probably somewhere more expensive than HK lol).

We'll see where this goes. Right now I want to get good enough to confidently service peoples' watches with consistency, and without even having to think about fucking up like losing shock springs

If I'm being honest, anything would be better than what I am doing now. I was able to make a pretty good living doing what I was doing from 1999-2014ish, including getting residual income from websites and selling my biggest one. But the internet and advertising isn't what it used to be, and honestly I relied on it too much for too long. I got complacent, and unmotivated for too long. Now I am highly motivated. If I can turn this focused passion into something before burning out, you won't believe what a huge deal that will be for me. It's been a long time since I've felt this way about life at all. Been coasting for too long

[rb]

Originally Posted by headhunt3r

Rb, do you service reps? I have a couple that needs some servicing. I'm in Coquitlam so I'm nearby.

I don't really work on rep movements as they can be extremely fragile. Its honestly cheaper to buy another movement from AliX and drop it in. Even if you have one of the higher end VSF or clean reps. I buy batteries from the watch place at Coq Center and he claims charge for $200 for a service, which is stupid cheap but I'm not sure if its quality work

Don't want to clutter up the thread so you can PM me

[SkinnyPupp]

This morning I served and installed a new movement in my Panerai. The old one will be my work unit going forward, and I'm interested in seeing how performance of this movement can improve after service, after being used for around a year. I also took the opportunity to switch the strap from leather to rubber, since weather is warming up (once it gets too hot, I'm switching again to NATO)



Tasks:

-Disassemble and clean new movement, polish pivots, oil shock settings (using the new tool you can see in the drawer above; the one in gold)

Have done this a hundred times by now, so it went smoothly. The new tool took some getting used to, but it will certainly by more consistent. The pin on this thing is smaller than an insulin needle, it's pretty impressive (and just as fiddly to install the needle as it is to work on the watch itself lol)

-Remove part of the pivot of the seconds wheel, polish and buff

This is because the 6497.2 (and ST3600 based on it) movements default is to have a seconds hand at 9, while this model doesn't have a seconds hand. If you install the dial over top of it, it will get squished down and prevent the movement from running. ETA makes a version of a wheel without the seconds hand pivot, but this is restricted to their clients. I've seen them around, for like $15. Instead, I cut the pivot shorter. In the past, I have done this while installed in the base plate, but that is unwise as it can crack the jewel or send metal shavings into the movement to cause issues

So I eyeballed where to cut it by comparing a wheel I have that I know works. I then held it in a pin vice (carefully), polished it down on 3000 grit diamond stone (carefully), then buffed it with an EVEFLEX pin. These are rubber buffing pins meant to be used in rotary tools, but you can stick them in a pin vice and buff pivots with them manually



Lesson: I need a higher quality pin vice to allow for more precise control

-Assemble, and after 24 hours, regulate in 3 positions to get the delta and average time as low as possible

Results of that:

Dial High: -1s. 299 amp 0.1 ms
6 High: -3s 269 amp 0.0 ms
9 High: +5s 272 amp 0.2 ms

Delta: 6 seconds, average time: +0.33 seconds per day

-Remove old movement from casing, remove hands, remove case holders, remove dial, hour wheel, canon pinion.

Lesson: I need proper hand removal levers. I had a cheap presto tool that is not precise enough or even thin enough to properly fit under the hands. I scuffed up the hour hand. Can't see it with the naked eye, but there's my next tool to purchase.

-Grease center wheel pivot and install canon pinion, hour wheel, dial, properly align dial screws, clean and re-lube the stem

I didn't have any lubrication when I got this watch, so I took the opportunity to properly lube the parts that were missing it. Used Molykote DX as the grease

Lesson: Don't buy Molykote DX as your grease. It is technically MUCH cheaper because you're getting 50G for $12 instead of 5 ml of Moebius 9504 for $17. But in reality it will take forever to get through 5 ml of either, so really you're only saving $5. And Molykote DX is a bitch to clean as it leaves lithium residue on everything if it isn't cleaned very thoroughly.

-Install hands, place completed movement in case, install case brackets and screws and stem

This was the challenging part. The hands went on fine, but man one of the case clamps really gave me a hard time. The problem is there is only a tiny spot in between two bridges where it can fit, so it's tough to sneak it in there. And then once you do, you have to do the same thing again with a screw, hoping you don't push the clamp out of place. This was something where I felt like when I was done, I leveled up a bit in dexterity lol

-Use silicone grease on new gasket, install case back

Used a rubber ball to get a tight grip on the case back since I don't have a case opening/closing tool yet. Works fine!

And then I buffed the case with a microfiber cloth, installed the crown guard, strap, and that's it! Watch is running smoothly, case is nice and clean and shiny. After this coffee break, I'll time the old movement and see how it improves after a service.

The first picture is actually the old movement. Here is the new one being cased



Can you tell the difference? Both are ST3600, both based on the 6497-2. However the first one is actually based on the Panerai OP XI caliber, which is based on the 6497-2. The new one is based on the stock ETA version. The only real difference is the bridge layout. The Panerai is a bit easier to deal with, since the escape wheel gets its own cock.

[Jason00S2000]

Yo Skinny... why are watches so important to you?

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by Jason00S2000

Yo Skinny... why are watches so important to you?

Two of my favourite things are mechanics and history, so I get a double boner from watches

[Jason00S2000]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

Two of my favourite things are mechanics and history, so I get a double boner from watches

Can you share with us your favourite story about mechanics or history?

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by Jason00S2000

Can you share with us your favourite story about mechanics or history?

I wrote about it a lot in the other watch thread

[SkinnyPupp]

First time taking apart the 2824-2, and of course I ping the click and its spring immediately

I found the click right away, but it took me 20 minutes of crawling around on the floor trying to find the spring.. I go back to the movement to see if maybe it caught onto something there, and...



So yeah from now on I'll check the movement itself first

It's challenging taking something apart for the first time without instructions, but fun. Now I know to be extra extra careful for components that have springs behind them. This is the only one on this movement, so it kind of slipped my mind.

[6793026]

^ i know nothing about this but wouldn't it be nice to put a plexi glass over this / enclosed space so springs doesn't bounce around ur room.

[68style]

It would be, but your arms and tools are coming at a movement from all types of angles so it would be tough to both have a cover and have enough access points to reach everything on the movement from all the angles you need to reach things from.

Also adds another layer of something distorting/obscuring view on pieces that already require magnification to see...

[SkinnyPupp]

Yeah that would be tough. I know some people will put everything into a big ziplock bag when doing something that risks sending springs off into orbit. My issue here is that I didn't expect it, so off it went. Now I know what to watch for next time. And after working on this thing a few dozen times, it should be second nature

And then on to Rolex!

My workshop is really clean and there's not much in it, so finding parts shouldn't be an issue when it happens. That's why I thought it must still be on the movement itself if I couldn't find it after 15-20 minutes searching the floor.

That whole thing is about the size of a thumb print, so you can imagine how small the spring is. About the size of a nose hair. I thought this might be another case where I'd have to vacuum the room and search through the dirt with a magnet.

[Badhobz]

cleanliness is next to godliness.... (if youre not a guangdong hoarder)

[SkinnyPupp]

I was going to clean the 2824-2 last night but it was really greasy from the factory so I wanted to take my time.

Cleaning manually involves using naphtha to clean off all the grease, using an artist brush



(sorry for the blurry photo)

And when that is done, I rinse the parts twice in 99% isopropyl alcohol. After one rinse I use it a second time as a first rinse, with a fresh batch of alcohol for the second rinse, which becomes the first rinse next time (I hope that makes sense)



Parts are then dried in a food dehydrator at 55C. If this is not done, the alcohol will absorb moisture in the air as it evaporates, causing condensation and then rust.



I ordered a tripod so I will be able to take video soon (if it doesn't become a hassle I may share some here)

[SkinnyPupp]

So I wasn't so lucky this time with the flying spring

Good thing I have a Taobao order getting ready to ship out. Ordered 10 replacements (costs about $2)

[SkinnyPupp]

So today I learned how technical communication sheets can vary based on manufacturer. Some are good, some are really bad.

The movement I'm working on is a Chinese clone of the ETA 2824-2. An even more common clone (probably more than ETA itself by now) is the Sellita SW200-1. That was the easier document to find, so I used it.

This is the part I got to before losing the spring:



If you can follow along, it gives you the order of parts installed. I cropped out the relevant parts - they start with 420 (crown wheel), screw it in with 5420 (crown wheel screw) then 425 (click) and 430 (click spring)

Let me tell you now - to do it in this order is literally impossible. You can probably tell from the picture itself - once the crown wheel is installed, there's no way you can install anything underneath it. I don't know what they're thinking. At this point, experience would kick in and a watchmaker would use that to choose the correct order. But the whole point of a manual is that you shouldn't need to use intuition or guesses.

Here's the ETA version:



It starts with 17 (click) and then 18 (click spring) followed by 19 (crown wheel) and 902 Var (crown wheel screw). Based on videos, it's easier to install the spring before the click, but this at least is physically possible (this is the method I tried, using a technique I would with the 6497-2 I worked on a million times, and lost the spring). Also the graphic is clearer and easier to follow.

Anyway, there's my .. learning how to deal with poorly designed technical documents. Needless to say, I'll be using the ETA one from now on Eventually I'll have the experience to know that something is fucky.

I'll put everything together tomorrow except for the crown wheel/click mechanism, but the watch won't wind until I get that click spring in. That will be Friday at earliest.

And then I'll tear it down and reassemble a few dozen times until it's automatic for me. LFG!

(oh yeah, this thread is going to be filled with random bullshit like this)