brother got in a car accident

[sebTeggy]

So my brothers insurance rate goes up for 3 years. Now is this a time period? Or 3 years worth of insurance?

I am wondering if I can insure his car for him and set him as the primary driver, for 3 years, thus avoiding an increased rate. Or does he need to have an actively insured vehicle for 3 years?

I am aware of all the other responsibilities if I have him under my insurance, but I just need the above question answered. thanks

[Graeme S]

Insurance rates are set based on primary driver. If it's your car and he's the primary driver, it's based on his rates. Whatever his discount is, it goes back by however many steps relative to his discount level. At the end of three years if he hasn't had any accidents, then he can call ICBC and ask them to restore his discount (or remove his additional fees). If he doesn't call, it doesn't revert. If he has another at-fault accident that goes on his record, that 3-year option goes away.

He does not need an actively insured vehicle for his discount to accrue a discount but if he is caught as the primary driver of a vehicle he is not properly insured for and is in an accident his insurance is considered void and he is responsible for all costs.

[Impreza]

If he is driving the car you insured and get into an accident your insurance will go up.
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[femmefatale]

As an agent, i had a client with a very similar issue in the office this past week. You shouldn't need to make a phone call to have the discount restored. It's set in the system to adjust on it's own. However, if he has another at fault accident within the next 3 years then yes, he will most likely have to call to have it adjusted in the future.

Here's the claim rated scale chart attached below from ICBC.com. Based on whatever discount he currently has, you can get an idea of what his CRS level will now become and what might happen if there's another accident.

ICBC | crs.pdf

[saucywoman]

Originally Posted by femmefatale

As an agent, i had a client with a very similar issue in the office this past week. You shouldn't need to make a phone call to have the discount restored. It's set in the system to adjust on it's own. However, if he has another at fault accident within the next 3 years then yes, he will most likely have to call to have it adjusted in the future.

Here's the claim rated scale chart attached below from ICBC.com. Based on whatever discount he currently has, you can get an idea of what his CRS level will now become and what might happen if there's another accident.

ICBC | crs.pdf

Now a little ot but if you're in an accident in oct and when you renew your insurance in jan and there's no ding yet does that mean you're premiums won't go up til next renewal or can they go up at anytime on your monthly payment?
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[MindBomber]

Originally Posted by saucywoman

Now a little ot but if you're in an accident in oct and when you renew your insurance in jan and there's no ding yet does that mean you're premiums won't go up til next renewal or can they go up at anytime on your monthly payment?
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Next renewal.

[sebTeggy]

But how long does it last? Does my brother need to keep insuring vehicles for 3 years or can he just wait 3 years?

[Graeme S]

Originally Posted by sebTeggy

But how long does it last? Does my brother need to keep insuring vehicles for 3 years or can he just wait 3 years?

Originally Posted by Graeme S

He does not need an actively insured vehicle for his discount to accrue a discount but if he is caught as the primary driver of a vehicle he is not properly insured for and is in an accident his insurance is considered void and he is responsible for all costs.

Read

[XplicitLuder]

Originally Posted by sebTeggy

But how long does it last? Does my brother need to keep insuring vehicles for 3 years or can he just wait 3 years?

he has to have a clean record for the next 3 year. he can drive or walk or bus or w/e lol he doesn't have to have a car insured, as long as within the next 3 years he doesn't get into another accident were he is at fault

[quasi]

Originally Posted by sebTeggy

But how long does it last? Does my brother need to keep insuring vehicles for 3 years or can he just wait 3 years?

If he's thinking of insuring his car in your name without him as the principal driver I wouldn't do it. If he gets in an accident they'll investigate, they will find out and they'll void the insurance. If say it was you insuring it under your name with him driving and he gets in an accident writing off someones car, you will be personally liable for paying for that persons car and all their injuries and won't be able to insure anything yourself until it's paid off.

Either take transit and don't insure anything for 3 years or keep it in his name and pay the premium.

[SSM_DC5]

I was told by ICBC about a year ago that insurance rates will go back to normal

-if you keep insuring for 3 years
-if you don't insure anything for 5 years

and if you store your car and start paying for storage insurance, it won't be 3 years, it'll be 5

can any agents confirm, that is still the rules?

[FerrariEnzo]

If you trust him NOT to get into an accident, then you can insure the car UNDER your name... If hes a bit reckless at the wheel, its best to let him take the transit for 3 years and not insure a car, unless he has the money.

Its time based, he doesnt have to insure the car for it to go down...



my co-worker had a similar situation. He had an accident. Insured the car under his wifes name.. after 3 years, changed it back to his name.. He keeps his wife's record clean in case he got into an accident, so he can put her name on the insurance..

[Edison_Chen]

The time is fixed for about 3 years. He does not need to be insured for those 3 years. These claims automatically age after a while. If you stopped insuring for 2 years. When you come back on the third year, it will only affect you on that year, and then you will recover the next year.

There are 2 dates ICBC looks at: the date of loss and the charge date. Date of loss is pretty self-explanatory; charge date is when ICBC pays for the damages. The recovery rule, applies 3 years after the charge date.

For example: If you were at CRS discount at -3(15%) when the claim happened. Depending when there was the pay out, or if its too close to the renewal date. If the claim happens in the beginning of your term, and the charge date is also early in the term --> On renewal you will see the claim, and your CRS discount will go from -3(15%) to +3(30%). Next year it will be at +2(20%), year after: +1(10%). Year 4: back to -3(15%).

A very good method of calculating CRS by hand is charting it out manually. If you know when your got your DL and the date of loss + charge date, you can plot it out by hand.


ie: Learner's license starts at 01jun05 and if you do annual policies from January. Date of loss is Mar09.

If no claim: 0% (Jan06) -1(5%)(Jan07) -2(10%)(Jan08) -3(15%)(Jan09) -4(20%)(Jan10) -5(25%)(Jan11 -6(30%)(Jan12)

If 1 claim (X) @ 01mar09: 0(0%)(Jan06) -1(5%)(Jan07) -2(10%)(Jan08) -3(15%)(Jan09) X +3(30%)(Jan10) +2(20%)(Jan11) +1(10%)(Jan12) -3(15%)(Jan13)

[femmefatale]

Originally Posted by Edison_Chen

For example: If you were at CRS discount at -3(15%) when the claim happened. Depending when there was the pay out, or if its too close to the renewal date. If the claim happens in the beginning of your term, and the charge date is also early in the term --> On renewal you will see the claim, and your CRS discount will go from -3(15%) to +3(30%). Next year it will be at +2(20%), year after: +1(10%). Year 4: back to -3(15%).

Where did you learn this? I ask because, 'The Recovery Rule' will put you back at a level 0 after three years in a surcharge and you have to re-earn your entire discount. You will not not go back to your discount prior to the accident after those 3 years have passed. This recovery rule is designed for those who would be in a surcharge for longer than 3 years, and gives them the opportunity to start over from level 0 after 3 years in a surcharge with no more at fault accidents in that time frame.

[Suprarz666]

This is Offtopic but, for anyone insuring their vehicles, make sure to check for what your discount rate is.

The past 3 years i've insured my cars, i noticed icbc kept reducing my rate by 5%. Im assuming they're trying to scam people that don't pay attention.

In my case, during year 1, I was at 15% discount. Should've been 20%. The autoplan guy called icbc and changed it for me.

Second car i insured, icbc changed the rate back to 15%, one again, i had to get it changed back.

This current year when i went to insure my car, i was supposed to be at 25%, but i guess they "forgot" to update the system and kept me at 20%.

This has also happend to others i know, so pay attention when you pay.

[Edison_Chen]

Originally Posted by femmefatale

Where did you learn this? I ask because, 'The Recovery Rule' will put you back at a level 0 after three years in a surcharge and you have to re-earn your entire discount. You will not not go back to your discount prior to the accident after those 3 years have passed. This recovery rule is designed for those who would be in a surcharge for longer than 3 years, and gives them the opportunity to start over from level 0 after 3 years in a surcharge with no more at fault accidents in that time frame.

ICBC has 2 rules: recovery rule or base rule.

Recovery rule: If your are currently at any discount rate (-1 to -20) and you get into an accident. After 3 years, you go back to your discount (assuming you have only 1 claim)

Base Rate Rule: Only applies if you are already at surcharge and then you get into another claim. Then you go back to base rate. For example.. If I have 2 claims in the same year. I go from -3(15%) to +3(30%) and then to +6(75%). After the 3 years, instead of going to back to +3(30%), you get to recover all the way back to base (0%). The positive of this is, even if you have 5 accidents in the same year, affecting the policy all together, after 3 years you still go back to base rate.

[XplicitLuder]

^ im going to have to say i agree with femme more then you, unless icbc told ME wrong. I was at -10% and got into an accident at fault (this past october) which put me at +55% , and they said after 4 years if my record is clean and no accidents, i will go back down to 0% not back to -10%

[Edison_Chen]

Originally Posted by XplicitLuder

^ im going to have to say i agree with femme more then you, unless icbc told ME wrong. I was at -10% and got into an accident at fault (this past october) which put me at +55% , and they said after 4 years if my record is clean and no accidents, i will go back down to 0% not back to -10%

I'd probably contact ICBC to confirm with them. If you were at base rate (0%) and had an accident then you go to +6. In year 4, you go back to base rate. What a lot of customers and broker's don't understand, is claims affect you for 20 years, and they don't go away. ICBC has a pretty good system that can scan your CRS discount with an DL and an registration number. They have a system that can play with dates for "what if" situation and or what is anniversary date if there's an claim...

[XplicitLuder]

first year was 0, 2nd year it was 5% (sorry not 10% discount i guess only had 5%), so i wasn't at a 0% base rate. Then i was bumped up to +55% surcharge cus of my accident, but she said after 4 years i'd go back down to 0% (so like if it was my first year EVER insuring) but i guess ill ask them next time i have to re-insure my car

[Edison_Chen]

Originally Posted by XplicitLuder

first year was 0, 2nd year it was 5% (sorry not 10% discount i guess only had 5%), so i wasn't at a 0% base rate. Then i was bumped up to +55% surcharge cus of my accident, but she said after 4 years i'd go back down to 0% (so like if it was my first year EVER insuring) but i guess ill ask them next time i have to re-insure my car

If the broker isn't sure or if you have concerns about your CRS discount, have them call the ICBC broker line... If you are renewing or doing new plate, there's no charge to confirm the correct crs discount.

[Ludepower]

To answer your question OP. Yes your brother can wait the 3 years out while you insure a car for him. It'll reset back to normal after 3 years.

If he does get into an accident, he can say he was just borrowing your car. That alibi only works if your brother lives with you.

You dont want ICBC up your ass if they find out your brother doesn't live with you or he gets into an accident on his way to work in rush hour traffic.

[vitaminG]

based on my knowledge as an insurance broker everything edison chan said is correct