REVscene Automotive Forum - View Single Post - Engine Oil/Oil Changes Myth and Facts Thread

ericthehalfbee · 06-20-2010, 07:38 AM

I went back through our database at work for the last 5 years and appx 3,000 customer vehicles and looked at all of the engines that needed significant repair work (mechanical repair work on the engine assembly only).

We had one engine with a lubrication failure, and that was because it was a used vehicle and the previous owner did an improper repair to the engine (so stupid I can't even believe they were able to actually remove the engine to rebuild it and get it back in the car, yet they could miss something on the inside so obvious).

The remainder of the repairs fell into the following categories (most common items first).

- Timing chain/belt failures or tensioner failures.
- Head gasket failure.
- Dropped valve seat, sticky valve, weak spring or other valvetrain issues.
- Moving cylinder liner.
- Spun bearings.

Absolutely none of these problems would be detected with a UOA and a UOA would save you nothing in the repair costs by early detection as the companies who sell UOA promote.

Let's take a bearing problem as an example. Your UOA analysis indicates higher than normal values of bearing material in the oil. So where on your UOA report does it tell you which bearing is wearing? Are all your bearings wearing slightly more than normal, or is all the material suspended in the oil from a single bearing that's about to fail? And if your UOA tells you your bearings are wearing, what are you going to do to fix the problem? Are you going to assume that all your bearings are wearing slightly more than normal and change your oil sooner, or are you going to be worried that a single bearing is about to fail? Are the methods the mechanic uses to check your bearings going to suddenly drop in price now that the UOA has identified bearing material in the oil? No, you still need to do the long process of dis-assembling the engine to locate the bad bearing (bearings) and replace them.

In the end, having a UOA tell you there's more bearing material in the oil will do nothing to prevent the bearing problem, it will do nothing to identify the exact source of the problem, and it will make no difference on your final repair bill.

UOA is the answer to a question that nobody asked. I firmly believe that UOA can help you to find out what oil change interval is good for you and how many KM's you can expect to get from a certain oil with your driving habits. I also firmly believe that modern engines with modern oils can go much longer than people think before they need to have their oil changed. But I call BS on the idea that UOA is going to help you determine if your engine is going to fail or make any difference to your repair costs through early detection. Most of the things that can break on your engine aren't going to leave traces in the oil for you to detect. And the ones that do (like bearings) will still require an old-fashioned engine rebuild to locate and repair.

We looked at UOA years ago for our customers and decided based on the repairs we were doing that UOA would have simply been an additional expense that would have made no difference to our customers repair bills. If we did regular UOA's on our customer cars we would be spending upwards of $30,000 per year on tests and receive no benefit. We decided our customer money would be better spent elsewhere.

In my case I can spend $30 on an oil change every 5,000km or I can spend $60 ($30 oil change and $30 UOA) every 10,000km's. In the first scenario I change my oil twice as often and the second I stretch my oil change and have some report tell me that "your oil is good to for 10,000km oil change intervals".

I'll go with the first option, thank you. I don't need a report to tell me my oil is OK just like I don't need to spend money to tell me the sun is going to rise tomorrow or anything else that's so obvious. Oil related lubrication failures are so rare I don't even worry about them with my personal (or customer) vehicles.

For people where your oil change costs significantly more (like using 8 litres of synthetic and an OEM filter), you could save money in the long term by getting a UOA done and getting the maximum life from your oil, but for most cars the savings just simply aren't there. So I'll go with using my money to change my oil more often, and while my car is in the air I'm going to look over the rest of my car. There's where the possibility of saving money exists as I can visually see if components on my car (belts, hoses, brakes, exhaust, suspension, mounts and so on) need attention.

06-20-2010, 07:38 AM	#147
ericthehalfbee I Will not Admit my Addiction to RS Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: North Vancouver Posts: 584 Thanked 194 Times in 59 Posts Failed 164 Times in 42 Posts	I went back through our database at work for the last 5 years and appx 3,000 customer vehicles and looked at all of the engines that needed significant repair work (mechanical repair work on the engine assembly only). We had one engine with a lubrication failure, and that was because it was a used vehicle and the previous owner did an improper repair to the engine (so stupid I can't even believe they were able to actually remove the engine to rebuild it and get it back in the car, yet they could miss something on the inside so obvious). The remainder of the repairs fell into the following categories (most common items first). - Timing chain/belt failures or tensioner failures. - Head gasket failure. - Dropped valve seat, sticky valve, weak spring or other valvetrain issues. - Moving cylinder liner. - Spun bearings. Absolutely none of these problems would be detected with a UOA and a UOA would save you nothing in the repair costs by early detection as the companies who sell UOA promote. Let's take a bearing problem as an example. Your UOA analysis indicates higher than normal values of bearing material in the oil. So where on your UOA report does it tell you which bearing is wearing? Are all your bearings wearing slightly more than normal, or is all the material suspended in the oil from a single bearing that's about to fail? And if your UOA tells you your bearings are wearing, what are you going to do to fix the problem? Are you going to assume that all your bearings are wearing slightly more than normal and change your oil sooner, or are you going to be worried that a single bearing is about to fail? Are the methods the mechanic uses to check your bearings going to suddenly drop in price now that the UOA has identified bearing material in the oil? No, you still need to do the long process of dis-assembling the engine to locate the bad bearing (bearings) and replace them. In the end, having a UOA tell you there's more bearing material in the oil will do nothing to prevent the bearing problem, it will do nothing to identify the exact source of the problem, and it will make no difference on your final repair bill. UOA is the answer to a question that nobody asked. I firmly believe that UOA can help you to find out what oil change interval is good for you and how many KM's you can expect to get from a certain oil with your driving habits. I also firmly believe that modern engines with modern oils can go much longer than people think before they need to have their oil changed. But I call BS on the idea that UOA is going to help you determine if your engine is going to fail or make any difference to your repair costs through early detection. Most of the things that can break on your engine aren't going to leave traces in the oil for you to detect. And the ones that do (like bearings) will still require an old-fashioned engine rebuild to locate and repair. We looked at UOA years ago for our customers and decided based on the repairs we were doing that UOA would have simply been an additional expense that would have made no difference to our customers repair bills. If we did regular UOA's on our customer cars we would be spending upwards of $30,000 per year on tests and receive no benefit. We decided our customer money would be better spent elsewhere. In my case I can spend $30 on an oil change every 5,000km or I can spend $60 ($30 oil change and $30 UOA) every 10,000km's. In the first scenario I change my oil twice as often and the second I stretch my oil change and have some report tell me that "your oil is good to for 10,000km oil change intervals". I'll go with the first option, thank you. I don't need a report to tell me my oil is OK just like I don't need to spend money to tell me the sun is going to rise tomorrow or anything else that's so obvious. Oil related lubrication failures are so rare I don't even worry about them with my personal (or customer) vehicles. For people where your oil change costs significantly more (like using 8 litres of synthetic and an OEM filter), you could save money in the long term by getting a UOA done and getting the maximum life from your oil, but for most cars the savings just simply aren't there. So I'll go with using my money to change my oil more often, and while my car is in the air I'm going to look over the rest of my car. There's where the possibility of saving money exists as I can visually see if components on my car (belts, hoses, brakes, exhaust, suspension, mounts and so on) need attention.