REVscene Automotive Forum - View Single Post - 24 Hour Prohibition & Driving W/O Consideration

Simnut · 06-14-2011, 09:48 PM

A break through in this discussion perhaps, and the "brickwall" we keep hitting our heads on!

It eludes to the 2 areas that you have mentioned zulutango! The 24 hour prohibition is applicable to ANY driver, yes, even the novice driver if over the allowable level of being able to drive in BC, .....05. I agree with that. If a novice OR regular driver are over .05, the right on the back of the 24 hour notice is a moot point. If a roadside test is requested and the driver is over .05, the "allowed to drive" doesn't matter or enter the equation at all.

It is the realm of the level of .01 to .049 that bothers me. THIS is where the grey area is. A regular driver is allowed to drive, legally the novice isn't! The .01 to .049 area is where the novice driver can or will receive the 12 hour suspension, but can this be evaluated by observation alone? No it can't. It has to be determined by an ASD. Now we start to see why section 90.3 has been legislated. A mandatory roadside test to determine this and part of why I have been saying that the investigation into a novice driver needs to be started with a 90.3.

It appears that only half of section 215 does not apply to novice drivers. The 24 hour prohibition applies to the novice driver if he's over .05, but doesn't apply to the novice driver if he/she is below .05. So the description of a driver in section 215 is a driver that can't drive with a BAC of over .05 (both novice and regular) or can drive with a BAC of under .05(regular driver) THIS is where the confusion arises.

The novice driver will get a license suspension as a result of both of these charges from the OSMV. You could say, then whats the big deal? It comes down to the last line in the right on the back of the 24 hour notice, "and you will be allowed to drive". That line comes into play and becomes a "dangled carrot" when the DRIVER requests the roadside test.....it doesn't come into play when the police officer demands a roadside test. If a police officer stops a novice driver and demands a roadside test, the officer can apply the 12 hour suspension OR the 24 hour prohibition, dependent on the BAC levels. Again...section 90.3, where a police officer must demand a road side test.
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Definition of "dangled carrot". A right that the novice driver "initiated" by asking for a roadside test, because he/she has been told or read that this is their right and they KNOW they are below .05. But even blowing below .05, they will not be allowed to drive, legally! The carrot is now not just dangled in front of them, it is taken away.

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The only way to prevent this scenario from happening is for the officer to demand a roadside test first.......and if that happens, section 90.3 is actually "invoked" first. This is the only difference between an officer applying section 215 or 90.3........but the right on the back of the 24 hour notice is eliminated.

06-14-2011, 09:48 PM	#45
Simnut ...on a mission.... Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: n Posts: 281 Thanked 60 Times in 30 Posts Failed 15 Times in 14 Posts	A break through in this discussion perhaps, and the "brickwall" we keep hitting our heads on! It eludes to the 2 areas that you have mentioned zulutango! The 24 hour prohibition is applicable to ANY driver, yes, even the novice driver if over the allowable level of being able to drive in BC, .....05. I agree with that. If a novice OR regular driver are over .05, the right on the back of the 24 hour notice is a moot point. If a roadside test is requested and the driver is over .05, the "allowed to drive" doesn't matter or enter the equation at all. It is the realm of the level of .01 to .049 that bothers me. THIS is where the grey area is. A regular driver is allowed to drive, legally the novice isn't! The .01 to .049 area is where the novice driver can or will receive the 12 hour suspension, but can this be evaluated by observation alone? No it can't. It has to be determined by an ASD. Now we start to see why section 90.3 has been legislated. A mandatory roadside test to determine this and part of why I have been saying that the investigation into a novice driver needs to be started with a 90.3. It appears that only half of section 215 does not apply to novice drivers. The 24 hour prohibition applies to the novice driver if he's over .05, but doesn't apply to the novice driver if he/she is below .05. So the description of a driver in section 215 is a driver that can't drive with a BAC of over .05 (both novice and regular) or can drive with a BAC of under .05(regular driver) THIS is where the confusion arises. The novice driver will get a license suspension as a result of both of these charges from the OSMV. You could say, then whats the big deal? It comes down to the last line in the right on the back of the 24 hour notice, "and you will be allowed to drive". That line comes into play and becomes a "dangled carrot" when the DRIVER requests the roadside test.....it doesn't come into play when the police officer demands a roadside test. If a police officer stops a novice driver and demands a roadside test, the officer can apply the 12 hour suspension OR the 24 hour prohibition, dependent on the BAC levels. Again...section 90.3, where a police officer must demand a road side test. _________________________________________ Definition of "dangled carrot". A right that the novice driver "initiated" by asking for a roadside test, because he/she has been told or read that this is their right and they KNOW they are below .05. But even blowing below .05, they will not be allowed to drive, legally! The carrot is now not just dangled in front of them, it is taken away. _________________________________________ The only way to prevent this scenario from happening is for the officer to demand a roadside test first.......and if that happens, section 90.3 is actually "invoked" first. This is the only difference between an officer applying section 215 or 90.3........but the right on the back of the 24 hour notice is eliminated. Last edited by Simnut; 06-15-2011 at 04:39 AM.