[Ulic Qel-Droma]

edit: holy fuck long post. well. anyone that actually reads this shit deserves props for being able to stand the ideas that come outta my mouth.

Originally Posted by Phozy

Youre a genius ulic...

yes i know thanks.
haha.

Originally Posted by Gridlock

But here's the deal...if you can't sit this woman down and tell her straight up, I want to open this shit up and at least be honest, then everything becomes lies and justifications. And its not the physical act of sex that really pisses people off. It's the lies! At least for me. You asked, how would I feel if it was happening to me? Ok. I'd give a little shit about the fact that she got with someone else, but WAY pissed when I thought about what lies she would have to tell me to buy her time to fuck, and whatever other deceptions to keep everything to herself.

Spoiler!

what if your heart likes that woman most still?

what is the benefit of telling your main woman?

you're lying when you say you dont give a shit about the fact that she got with someone else.

you'd hate that fact, and the lies that gave her time would amplify that.

if she just was direct and came up to you and told u she was fucking other people and then continued to do it, you wouldn't be happy trust me. even though she wasnt lying or deceitful.

Originally Posted by Gridlock

That's the part that pissed me off with my father. It wasn't the act of sex. It was the fact that he turned into a douche and was lying to fucking everyone! It was the fact that as a result of his lies, everyone in our community felt they had to stay out of it so they continued his lies. Then he has his epiphany that living with the fat bowl cut broad in the trailer is the way to go and you just sit there and realize how stupid everyone was to what was actually happening.

Spoiler!

so what exactly are you to do?
if he came out and said it, your mom and dad would divorce still and he'd still go with that bowl cut broad. everyone would still be just as hurt.
you'd probably be complaining about how cold hearted he was and how he could just pick up and leave just like that without warning.

if he lied (he lied because of shame, because he didnt want to hurt you guys, and probably because society has trained us to lie about these things because coming out about it is very uncompassionate and frank, and you shouldn't be doing this shit anyway... probably a mix of all that, or any of those take your pick)
anyway
he if he lied...wel the result was what happened.

so tell me,
which of the two evils are u ready to pick?
remember you only feel this way because of your perspective.

if it were the other perspective, i bet you wouldn't feel any better. you'd still have some kind of hate toward his actions.

Originally Posted by Gridlock

I can't remember exactly, but I believe you have alluded to having ladies on the side here on rs before, yes?

Spoiler!

i have ladies everywhere, vancouver, japan, china, taiwan and hk. some know of the other ladies and don't mind (or say they don't but all secretly want to be the one), some dont know for certain, but know better than to ask and end what they have going for them right now. some are completely oblivious to the fact.

are any of them my CURRENT (main) girlfriend? no.
are any of them girlfriend material? yes
are any of them marrying material? yes.

am i currently leading any of them on to the fact that they are going to be the lucky one that marries me? no.

i'll be honest, ive never been in a situation like the OP.
but i definitely know what i'd do. i'd be doing exactly what OP is doing.

i dont know how it works or why it worked out this way, but typically, i stopped chasing girls that dont like me. it just doesnt work.
i find a girl i like, and i make sure she likes me too. dont fight battles unless you already know you'll win them.

plus then i am the desired one. the girls chase me. they desire me.
and there's none of all those dating and build up before sex.
i always fuck them first, then date them after, and girls dont have a problem with this.
once the sex is established as something you just do. they just do it as part of the friendship or fling or relationship or whatever you want to call it.
it's no different than going out to watch a movie with a friend. plus it feels good and it INSTANTLY brings you two exponentially closer without going through all the other bullshit. you've explored each other's bodies and there's just nothing you can do other than get to know each other after that. if you do it the other way around too many things can go wrong.

why's everyone exploring the shell of the nut, and finding out whats inside after?
shouldnt you crack the nut open and find out what's inside, then explore the rest afterward?

ill let u in on a personal story.

Spoiler!

i had a long term gf (6 years, u can argue 8, but i'd say 6), semi-LD (i'd go there as much as i could).
i never cheated on her. i did fuck other girls during these "8" years, but we were on breaks or we were broken up temporarily. and she never asked or cared to ask. she knew if it came down to gunpoint, i'd always choose her over everyone else, including my own life. that's all that matters at the end.

anyway so one summer i decide to go there and visit her (taipei) for 7 months.
during that time i met another girl, ran into her at a club, and then the next week she magically shows up in the same class as me. im totally into fobs, but let me tell ya, this chick was born in Alabama, and grew up in california OC. ABC chick. hot as fuck. nice as hell. she was obviously into me. she dumped her BF before moving to taiwan so she was free (not that this would have made any difference what so ever). she dropped heavy hints about liking me, and did all this other shit only gf's would do for their bf's.
i could have totally fucked her. and if i did and we started some fling on the side, it probably wouldnt of worked out in the long run and it woulda just been a nice fling for the both of us, and my gf would have NEVER found out. cuz deep down inside i still loved my gf, even though this girl was way hotter. but i wanted to marry my gf.
well anyways i let her go and the most i did was grab her titties, so basically i did nothing with her other than flirt and play around a little.

few years down the road, me and dear lovin girlfriend breakup, due to differences (not distance).
let me tell you, now that i look back... whether i fucked that ABC chick, or not... would have made absolutely no difference at all in the big picture.
there would be absolutely 0 effect on my ex-girlfriend. whether i fucked abc or not.
i would have had a hot awesome lay. and that's that. she would have had a fun time, i would have had a fun time.
no different than a guy sneaking out to have a drink with his buddies. or smoke that J when his gf doesnt let him.
ignorance is bliss.

plus she was super duper hot. for me to pass that up says a lot in how much i believe in love and that "one girl" and marriage and all that shit.
i was loyal to the max... well i did grab her tits (which some of you possessive types would consider cheating), other than that... nothing.

but i look back now and i kick myself so hard. say i did fuck her. i would have banged an awesome hot fun chick, and we would have both enjoyed the shit out of it.
and my gf wouldnt of known.
and say i was still with my gf... she still wouldnt of known. so whats the diff?
im still with her at the end, and i still come home to her, and love her the most, and "finance" her the most.

say she found out... today. years later... ok? what's she gonna do? break up with me? throw a hissy fit? feel sad?
she'd probably feel sad and then what? throw all these years out the window because i stuck my penis in another woman's vagina that wasnt hers? probably not.
i'd apologize (sincerely) and she'd get over it eventually, and then it'd be over.

shit happens man. life aint a fairytale. if youre gonna abandon a relationship every time it doesnt live up to the fairytale expectations, you're never gonna be with anyone forever.

that was one of my biggest regrets in my life. not having that fling with the abc chick. i regret it to this day. i regret it as it happened. i regretted as i rejected her advances.

anyway, regardless of whether i did, or did not, i wouldnt of had to ever lie about anything. because ive never been confronted about it.
not because im ultra sneaky ninja about it. but because i probably have laid down the ground work before entering any relationship. girls know what im like.
girls know other girls like me. and smart girls know what guys are like.

if i was ever confronted, i'd tell them straight up, yeah, i fucked her. AND?
and nothing. because i'm the one that they want. and they're willing to overlook that.

and if i want a girl bad enough, i can over look that fact too.

Originally Posted by RabidRat

When I get in a relationship, I make a commitment up front that if I'm going to start something with another girl, I'm leaving this relationship first. And I don't move forward with it unless they make that same commitment.

Spoiler!

why?
why would you do that?

1) you're setting up rules that will be broken. (much like stupid rules like you gotta text me every day! or call me every night at 9pm! or whatever other rules). these rules will be broken, its INEVITABLE.

2) you set these rules up because of some illusionary self ego boosting morals. some kind of illusionary honor. that you can be "loyal" and all that. (but in the end, it's only to boost your honor and hold up a fake feeling of integrity, it really does nothing in the long run).

3) you're insecure and you want a binding contract that says if she wants to hurt your feelings (fuck another guy), she has to first leave this relationship, then she can (still) hurt your feelings by fucking another guy even though she's already left... the only difference is you (or her) arent labeled cheaters. but really what's the difference?

you see where im getting at?
you enter this contract that you've made up, and you meet someone else u like better, so the easy thing to do is to dump her and fuck this other chick because thats what the promise and contract was. therefore if u follow it you're all clean and still honourable.

that's bullshit. lol. it's no different than fucking the other chick behind her back and her finding out about it (or vice versa)

the hurt is still there and JUST AS BAD.

Originally Posted by RabidRat

If in your relationships you've stated that you're going to have some fun on the side "nothing personal, it's just human nature baby!", then that's a whole other story. But if you've made a promise and break it, then continually lie about it, then you're a jackass. It's not even about the relationship anymore, it's about the kind of person you are that nobody can trust you to keep your word.

Spoiler!

made a promise to what? not cheat?
ive never been with a girlfriend where when we get together we make promises not to cheat, and not to do this, or that, or not to jerk off to porn, or stare at other girls. or whatever.

i never promise anything. i tell them i love them. and its not a lie. i do love them. i love all of them. i cant promise the love will last forever. that would be a lie.

i can be trusted to keep my word. i almost always keep my word.

if a girl straight up asks me to "promise her ill love her for all of eternity, and never cheat on her in any way or form" i wouldnt agree to it.
i'd smirk and tell her she's young or just naive.
then i'd stroke her hair and put it behind her ear and kiss her forehead and say to her "i can promise you this: i love you for who you are and i'll always love you as long as we're together.

and she'd probably just give up and accept my proposal.

it's always like that. and i havent lied, and i havent made any promises i cant keep.
and i dont intend it that way to be sneaky. its 100% the truth.

if she throws a hissy fit and says no, she wants to have access to my phone, and this and that. i'd probably say okay, fuck her one last time, then break up with her within the next few days and say it's not working out because of differences.
she'll probably come crying back and begging me not to leave. and i'll tell her i cant promise her any of those things she asked me and if she cant accept that, then i have to leave. thats that. its that simple.

and im not trying to play them.

Originally Posted by RabidRat

If they ended up cheating on me, yeah I'd be hurt but you know what, I'd eventually be okay. It just means I found out they aren't someone I wanted to be with in the first place, no hard feelings. I look for a specific type of person to be with and that's someone who has the self-control and personal standards that they wouldn't do something like that.

Spoiler!

oh yeah? what about this
i throw u in a scenario

you're with your current gf, and you love her and all that and made commitment not to cheat and be all loyal and stuff.

then one day, at (work, club, social club, whatever anything you can imagine, chruch, kindergarden reuinion, travelling etc whatever)... you meet this awesome chick. she is THE woman of your dreams.
like maximum looks 12/10 in your books
her personality is 12/10 in your books

in fact she is BETTER than your current girlfriend in EVERY single way (oh and she likes you too).

she seduces you with ease (this is already done, it happened the moment your eyes locked).
you are 100% seduced. you are hella in love.

the only problem is, you're long term gf and you are probably gonna get married. youve talked about it and all that and you've been together like 8-10-15 years or whatever.

you're simply going to just say no? run home and jerk off and call your gf and manifest your mind with thoughts of your gf so u can get perfect girl outta your mind?
nuh-uh your not. that isnt going to happen.

youre probably gonna tell me this situation isnt going to happen.
well guess what, the probability of it happening in your life time (if you're a normal decent human being that travels outside of his city). is high.

you will meet that girl someday.

you probably will give it a go. and feel regret after. or not, perhaps she's even better, she's the actual "one" you've been looking for.

or you'll pass it up due to stuborness. due to ego. due to attachment to your illusionary honor.

and guess what, okay that's fine, you passed it up

but guess what, you passed out the high chance of her being a better wife, a better life companion, and a better lover, a better mother for your kids... leading you to have a better life in every single way, because of you holding onto this "im not a cheater".

your other option was to tell your gf that u met someone else and dump her. but what if this new chick turns out to just be a 1 year fling? or 2 year fling? how do you know?

isn't it a better life strategy to keep your current gf in the dark (and be compassionate and smart about it), and find out what the truth is before making a move?


most people fail because they make moves before finding out what the next step is. irrational.

wait for a confirmation signal before deciding.

Originally Posted by RabidRat

Maybe the difference is also in what we're looking for in a relationship. I'm not just in it for a good time. For me it's all a long term trial period for something permanent, and if I don't see it moving towards that, I cut my losses and gtfo. I'd rather be single as I don't have time to screw around. I have a career to worry about and certain things I want to accomplish in a lifetime. With the level of commitment I throw into my relationships, it necessarily cuts into both these things (for one thing it means I can't suddenly move to another country), so it has to be worth it.

Spoiler!

trust me, im not in it just for a good time either.
i didn't end up with a a buncha "gfs" because i wanna just fuck a lotta chicks and brag about it (well partly yes, that's my egotistical side).

i value that intimacy, that 1 on 1 special illusionary love feeling probably more than any of you.
it's my thirst for that love, that special someone, that has driven me to go and seek as many women as possible.

i want to find that perfect 12/10. she is out there somewhere. there are billions of women. to think that some girl you met in a city that you've lived your whole life is THE BEST POSSIBLE ONE (and most people dont travel a lot or very far), is RETARDED. there's a BETTER woman out there somewhere. it's your job to go out there on this vast earth and fuckin find her, cuz she aint gonna be looking for you.

i need a woman that will COMPLEMENT my life, in every single way. she will be my LIFE companion. i dont want to settle for some 2nd rate broad because i cant find better, or because i limit myself to certain cities or countries.

i've learnt over the years, that special 1on1 love is an illusion. it can be replicated with any (well not any, but many) girls. often at the same time.
yes, there is usually one or another that stands out (at that period of time). but in the long run, there will ALWAYS be others. anyone that disagrees just hasn't had a lot of experience with women (not to flame them, but just stating a fact).
you always have this illusion of "she's the one" when you're madly in love.

you can break out of that, and realise, that is just a fake feeling produced by nature, your instincts. you can generate that feeling with anyone you really want.

i don't think anyone can really come to this realisation until they've had at least 15-30+ different partners.

otherwise you're only stuck in your own perspective, which is an illusion.

i have a quote for you. well part of a quote

He (humans) experiences himself, his thoughts, and feelings, as something separated from the rest (of the universe)—a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us.

personal desires is not limited by lust for women.

it can be personal desire to uphold an image. to be perceived a certain way.

but of course, like the quote says, it's only you that experiences this. it's not real.

so you say you'd rather cut off a girl if shes gonna "stray" (accidentally or intentionally), because of the level of commitment u put into a relationship.
well... maybe that's a mistake?
maybe you shouldnt put that level of commitment in a relationship.

you don't buy a car without doing research first, then test driving it and asking people about it.

it's the same for women. why would you buy the car before doing anything else?

if u put less commitment, you could still work on your career and all those other live goals, while seeking the right girl(s).
why can't you do that?

any argument to what i just said is just because you dont want to break out of your norm.
you've set some personal values/desires and image that you want to uphold and you wont break it, no matter what, EVEN IF ITS BETTER FOR YOUR LIFE.
don't u see that as a problem?

you're limiting yourself to many unknown and unpredictable experiences, due to stubbornness/ego.

Originally Posted by joolee

I've been in a relationship for 8 years+ with my ex and he cheated me on numerous times. Trust me, she will find out and when she does, the damage is traumatizing. Don't be the guy that fucks up everything for her.

Spoiler!

and you're saying if he told u straight up, the damage wouldnt be traumatizing?
lol give me a break, you'd still cry and ball your eyes out the same way when you found out he was cheating on you.

"don't be the guy that fucks up everything for her???"
but he already HAS.

the only difference is she DOESNT KNOW. the only other option is TELL HER AND FUCK UP EVERYTHING FOR HER.

you see where im coming from?

the bullet has already been fired.
he's already "fucked" up.

it's too late.

admitting due to some feeling of pride of being "honest" and "not a cheat" DOESN'T ACTUALLY FIX ANYTHING OR MAKE ANYTHING BETTER... AT ALL.


this whole "be honest" thing is no different than giving bums that 1 dollar. that whole year.
just cuz it makes u feel better. but in the end nothing changed.

you're lying to yourselves. so you can feel better.
feeding your own egos.

it's a lie.

realise it.

Originally Posted by 6793026

Ulic Qel-Droma you always come out and about and pull some random shit, sometimes it's epic, but in this situation, i can't side with you for some reason.

Spoiler!

i know you cant side with me. and i know many people cant side with me
and you don't know the reason.

but i do.

the reason is because you've built up some sort of image of yourself, and no one likes to break that image.
no one likes that feeling of uneasiness, that feeling of change, that feeling of change of fundamental personal values.

even if the values are hindering them in life (the values are irrational, or dont make sense, but they fail to realise that). they'll make up excuses, they'll try to live those values, just because it "feels" bad to go against them.

but is it rational? no.

we're not fucking amoebas. we're not bugs. we're not rats. we're human fucking beings.
we have the greatest awareness of ALL beings on this planet.

we shouldnt submit to our instincts, and how we "feel" and go against logic and rationality.
otherwise we're no different than a dog.

use your magically complex brains. following your "feeling" satisfies your ego. satisfies your instincts. that's it.

the reason we're still savage and fairly primitive, is because we have these feelings, these animalistic intrinsic instincts, that make us make stupid decisions, irrational decisions.
make us "feel wrong" for no good reason. or "feel right" for the most retarded reasons.

if i told you, if you followed my lifestyle, you will be guarenteed a happier life, and you will probably find a better girl. how many people would actually listen? a lot would agree, and then not change.
it's the same reason. that "i duno why, it feels bad".

it's no different from all those self help books, telling you what to change, but people fail to do it even after reading it.
people just dont wanna change. that is their greatest fault, and thats why they will be average and never get anywhere in life.

Originally Posted by Jsunu

I dunno Ulic, i see where you are coming from as monogomy = fantasy part but ultimately trust in a relationship is extremely important (at least for me). If two people are in committed long-term relationships just don't fuck around a slip up, it isn't hard to do. It is not like these people slip and fall naked on others, its a deliberate action. If he/she is cheating on you it speaks more to the problems within the couple.

Spoiler!

there is an error in your rationality.

you think because someone cheats, they have to logically plan out every move of the cheat, and then if they go through with it, that there is some problem with the relationship.
but that is all false.

you dont have to plan out every move of the cheat. it just happens. unexpected dream hottie. you had a major fight with your gf. whatever. the possibilities are ENDLESS.

secondly, if you cheat, it doesnt mean there is something WRONG with the relationship (there could be), but what if you cheat because there's something BETTER.
something better doesnt meant there's something wrong.

i can put it in hockey terms.
hockey bandwagon jumpers.
they jump bandwagons because there's something better.
all you guys that stick with canucks even though they're totally losing, only stick with them because of possessive reasons like i said before.
they dont like change. they like the illusion of honor and loyalty.
what's wrong with looking at another team if they're better in every way? does it mean your current team sucks? no. it just means the other team is better.

you also have the illusion that a person can only love 1 person at a time. which is wrong.
it is very possible to love many people at once at an intimate level.

you could very well "cheat" on your current gf but there's absolutely nothing wrong. you still love her as much as u did before.
you just temporarily (or still do) also love another woman.

Originally Posted by Jsunu

They way you frame it to the OP is that it just societal pressure that is making him guilty of his actions, but really the first replies were putting into consideration his current gf's feelings. Sure you can think of commitment as egotistical or a forced social construct, but in reality one person is going to be extremely hurt as a result because they have a concept of a committed relationship that I would argue most people have.

Spoiler!

considerations of his current gf's feelings?
his current gf's feelings are the same way they are before he started seeing his long time female friend, as they are after he started seeing her.
so what is there to consider?

only to consider the fact after she finds out or he tells her, which both will lead to the same answer, her heart will be broken (at the worst case scenario, which is the highest probability given the information we know).

so what's there to consider?

yes, in reality one person is going to be extremely hurt. but the momentum toward that probability has already started. the only thing we can do now is help the OP make the best decision in HIS life. which girl will better suit him.

as for his current gf. well, its up to her how hurt she wants to be. she can be possessive and cry about it for years. or move on.
either way.

1) if he stays with her, she should be happy. even if he did cheat on her, she has the right to be a little saddened and whatever. but she should be grateful that she has found a man that can be tempted by others and still keep her in the end.

2) if he chooses to leaves her... well then that action is inevitable. she just has to get over it or cry about it for the rest of her life.

now here's the thing, if you guys knew she'd get over it real quick, then you guys wouldnt give two fucks what he was doing.

or if you guys knew the current gf was also cheating on him. then you'd all reply "lol fucked up, whatever then who cares".

so really, what is the issue here? you guys are all arguing for the sake of commitment and her feelings. but in reality, what are you guys really disagreeing with me about? you guys dont give a shit about her. at all. you guys dont even know anything about her.

you guys are all just defending your OWN personal biases and values. and im just trying to show you guys all it's irrational and wrong. and that the OP should go ahead and explore and find the right woman.

im not saying you guys should all change and cheat on your gf's lol.
but im saying if it ever does happen, remember what i said, and you wont be as hurt, and neither will she, and perhaps your life will be better, and you guys will stay together and have a high level of maturity and awareness to overlook those "cheating" actions and stay together. because in reality. those "cheating" actions dont really mean jack shit. they only hurt you because they go against everything you've been programmed to be. and the programming is irrational.

im not perfect. i still submit to instincts and feelings. but i realise those actions are stupid (usually after), but if someone else does the same thing, im less inclined to flip out now, because i know those actions are just stupid actions that dont mean anything in the greater picture of things. they can easily be ignored and overlooked if you really wanted to.

Originally Posted by ek_noob

yea, if girl number 2 can cheat on her bf, she could possibly cheat on u too but then again,.. u said yall got history.. depending on the gravity of that history,that could tell u if u were meant for each other or if its time to let her go..

stop playin ur woman tho.. u gotta take care of her cuz if u dont, another man sure as hell will.

Spoiler!

ek NOOB. ok. dude. yeah if she cheats she can possibly cheat on him again.
but he's already cheated, so doesnt that mean the possibility of him cheating again is there too? so what are u really trying to say?

plus the possibility of someone cheating is always there.
u dont have to do it once to prove that you'll do it again.

just like a bird can fly, but if you cage it its entire life, it doesnt mean it wont fly when the right opportunity comes.

he's not playing his woman. he is taking care of her (his actions to stick with her or leave will determine whether she can find a better man suited for her or not, or if he's the right one).

a player plays. he's not playing. hes trying to decide whos right for him.

a player doesnt care, at all for the others feelings. he only plays the women for the chase, or for sex. he could care less if they had feelings, or if they were robots.

you guys are all crazy, but i don't blame you.
you all probably love your SO's so much right now, and they seem like they're the one.
that's great. and good for you.
just remember the past (if you've had other SO's or many SO's).
the feeling can be replicated.
what you're feeling now is just a temporary state. you can project it onto anyone. and anyone can project it on you.
i dont blame you for not fighting the feeling, not using your rationality over your heart.
it fucking feels good. its like a drug.
i dont blame any of you for thinking this way.
but if any of you ever get cheated on, just read what i wrote in this thread. and if you can truely ignore your feelings, and use your brain, and REALISE what i wrote, and embrace it 100% and live it in and out. you'll feel 100% better instantly.


as for the OP. good luck dude.
only you can know which girl is right for you. we dont know anything about these girls, and know very little about you.
my 2c is the same.
figure out who you wanna be with, then decide.
if you cant decide, well let it run until you do decide.

and like i said before, if everything turns for the worst and none of them are with you, accept it because you chose to take those high risks. you had two women at once, all men know the risks of that. and we all well know the rewards for accepting such risks.

look back and think, you had two women at once, how many guys on this forum even dare to make that move? or can even imagine the rewards of having two or more women at once?

on the flip side... if everything goes well and you stick with whichever girl you pick, then thats awesome.


for the rest of you... just remember, this scenario and everything i wrote could be from a girls point of view as well.
just cuz im a guy and come off as "playerish" doesnt mean its a solely a guy thing only.

for all you know, i could have learnt this all from women.