REVscene Automotive Forum - View Single Post

BIC_BAWS · 02-10-2019, 09:51 AM

Hey. I can't believe I'm saying this but, Trollface is right. What he's saying has been reflected by other long time users of RS as well. He's not wrong, he just doesn't communicate it well. We gotta get our story straight which is ultimately what the devil's advocate has been saying. Honestly, I've gotten lost in 90 pages. Most it is crap, so it would be nice if others can post about what I've forgotten.

Here's what I have:

1. It's bullshit that the police can issue another VI, right after passing in an inspection facility.

They argue that some shops pass without due care. But this is not within their job scope. The overseeing authority that issues inspection licenses is ICBC. They know best regarding this area.

See Note 3 as CVSE and MVA are different. Inspection facilities use CVSE guidelines.

2. There is argument to be made that VI or Notice to Comply infringes against our justice system and further, our rights. Our justice system provides no recourse when a VI is issued. The receiving party quite literally just has to take it. This could be a large number that many people cannot afford.

VIs are guilty until proven innocent.

The police can be entirely in the wrong for issuing an incorrect VI, but there is nothing you can do about it.

No court, no system that reimburses you for your time and money, nothing.

3. The guidelines of the MVA and CVSE are not aligned. Ultimately, they say different things.

MVA says no visible camber, but the CVSE guidelines allow for a threshold.

This is because from factory there are such mfg recommended thresholds which they know that load changes suspension geometry and to an extent visible camber increases safety.

4. The officers that are issuing VIs evidently do not have full knowledge of the MVA. They use the MVA system to issue infractions, yet they don't know that they are misinformed.

We know this through multiple instances of lowered height, visible camber, exhaust "loudness", etc.

5. Despite being potentially wrong, the officers have been seen in multiple instances "creating laws" to back up their case.

License plate positioning (RE: White BMW 2 series on the Granville Bridge + other cases)

MVA: Must be securely mounted to the front of the car.

Police: Must be mounted in the center. You cannot use tow hook mounts. This is wrong.

Non-OEM wheels (RE: every single car that has been issued a VI with aftermarket or painted wheels)

MVA: No information on it.

CVSE: Must be Canada DOT approved (which usually if it's approved in the USA, it's approved here).

Police: You cannot have aftermarket or painted wheels.

This infringes on an entire industry, suggesting that the entire industry is illegal. Furthermore, it can be argued that it infringes on your right to have freedom to expression.

Aftermarket suspension (RE: all cars that don't bounce when the police presses down on your car)

MVA: Can be changed within 10cm of factory specification. Headlights must be mounted at 54(?) cm off the ground. With a flat tire, your lowest point of the car cannot touch the ground.

CVSE: -someone input this-

Police: You cannot change anything. You must use MFG branded parts.

Note: Some cars like the Subaru Spec-Bs come with Bilstein B8s, BMWs with Sachs, others with Ohlins.

Visible camber (RE - all cars that they see with visible camber including fresh off the lot cars)

MVA: Wheels cannot poke outside of the fender.

CVSE: Factory specific thresholds for camber.

Police: No visible camber.

Most cars come cambered from factory - take a look at a BMW show room.

Aftermarket headlights (RE - old cars like the Lexus GS that came from factory with projectors)

MVA: Must be DOT approved.

CVSE: Must be aimed correctly; not blinding. The headlamps must be mounted at a height of not less than 56 cm and not more than 1.37 m. The distance counts from the Center of the light or bulb (needs clarification). Headlights should be DOT or E labeled, but brake lights and turn signals can be SAE [CVSE lights]

Police: If it doesn't look like it belongs, it's illegal.

Aftermarket exhaust systems / Excessive Noise (RE - FRS/BRZ that got VI'd right after purchase.)

MVA: You cannot modify the exhaust system in any way. You cannot have excessive noise - defined within a threshold. Each exhaust tip must be the exact same diameter. Threshold = 86 db (?)

CVSE: Threshold = 86 db (?)

Police: All cars are illegal if they don't sound like what they expect. You cannot change factory.

Reality: BMW M performance, Jaguar F-Type, MOST MFG cars now crackle and pop from factory. If the cars were approved for sale in Canada, they are legal.

4cylinder cars sound different from 6 or 8 cylinder cars.

There should be more information in this thread. This thread was originally purposed to gather information. Seeing that with 90 pages and most recently lots of troll posts, it's not very useful in gathering information. However, it is very evident that there are facts in this thread as many of us has done the research. I'd rather not waste all our efforts.

This is a Google docs link where you can help me inform the media of specific instances and points to bring up. If you have the time and knowledge, please add to it, as I will be bringing this to the media.

When adding points please specify your source or specific instances (ie. MVA, Section 1, Chapter 2, Note 3. ; CVSE: S(1),C(2),N(3); Westopher's car/Skunkworks car/FRS)

I will be constantly monitoring this document for trolls and document accuracy. It is currently open to edit by anybody but I will change it to comment on if need be. Please follow the above guidelines. If you have a comment, use the comment feature. If you have a suggested change, use the suggestion feature. There is the feature of revision history, so I will be able to see what has been modified.

Thanks everyone.

02-10-2019, 09:51 AM	#2253
BIC_BAWS OMGWTFBBQ is a common word I say everyday Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: revscene Posts: 5,154 Thanked 5,566 Times in 1,985 Posts Failed 180 Times in 78 Posts	Hey. I can't believe I'm saying this but, Trollface is right. What he's saying has been reflected by other long time users of RS as well. He's not wrong, he just doesn't communicate it well. We gotta get our story straight which is ultimately what the devil's advocate has been saying. Honestly, I've gotten lost in 90 pages. Most it is crap, so it would be nice if others can post about what I've forgotten. Here's what I have: 1. It's bullshit that the police can issue another VI, right after passing in an inspection facility. They argue that some shops pass without due care. But this is not within their job scope. The overseeing authority that issues inspection licenses is ICBC. They know best regarding this area. See Note 3 as CVSE and MVA are different. Inspection facilities use CVSE guidelines. 2. There is argument to be made that VI or Notice to Comply infringes against our justice system and further, our rights. Our justice system provides no recourse when a VI is issued. The receiving party quite literally just has to take it. This could be a large number that many people cannot afford. VIs are guilty until proven innocent. The police can be entirely in the wrong for issuing an incorrect VI, but there is nothing you can do about it. No court, no system that reimburses you for your time and money, nothing. 3. The guidelines of the MVA and CVSE are not aligned. Ultimately, they say different things. MVA says no visible camber, but the CVSE guidelines allow for a threshold. This is because from factory there are such mfg recommended thresholds which they know that load changes suspension geometry and to an extent visible camber increases safety. 4. The officers that are issuing VIs evidently do not have full knowledge of the MVA. They use the MVA system to issue infractions, yet they don't know that they are misinformed. We know this through multiple instances of lowered height, visible camber, exhaust "loudness", etc. 5. Despite being potentially wrong, the officers have been seen in multiple instances "creating laws" to back up their case. License plate positioning (RE: White BMW 2 series on the Granville Bridge + other cases) MVA: Must be securely mounted to the front of the car. Police: Must be mounted in the center. You cannot use tow hook mounts. This is wrong. Non-OEM wheels (RE: every single car that has been issued a VI with aftermarket or painted wheels) MVA: No information on it. CVSE: Must be Canada DOT approved (which usually if it's approved in the USA, it's approved here). Police: You cannot have aftermarket or painted wheels. This infringes on an entire industry, suggesting that the entire industry is illegal. Furthermore, it can be argued that it infringes on your right to have freedom to expression. Aftermarket suspension (RE: all cars that don't bounce when the police presses down on your car) MVA: Can be changed within 10cm of factory specification. Headlights must be mounted at 54(?) cm off the ground. With a flat tire, your lowest point of the car cannot touch the ground. CVSE: -someone input this- Police: You cannot change anything. You must use MFG branded parts. Note: Some cars like the Subaru Spec-Bs come with Bilstein B8s, BMWs with Sachs, others with Ohlins. Visible camber (RE - all cars that they see with visible camber including fresh off the lot cars) MVA: Wheels cannot poke outside of the fender. CVSE: Factory specific thresholds for camber. Police: No visible camber. Most cars come cambered from factory - take a look at a BMW show room. Aftermarket headlights (RE - old cars like the Lexus GS that came from factory with projectors) MVA: Must be DOT approved. CVSE: Must be aimed correctly; not blinding. The headlamps must be mounted at a height of not less than 56 cm and not more than 1.37 m. The distance counts from the Center of the light or bulb (needs clarification). Headlights should be DOT or E labeled, but brake lights and turn signals can be SAE [CVSE lights] Police: If it doesn't look like it belongs, it's illegal. Aftermarket exhaust systems / Excessive Noise (RE - FRS/BRZ that got VI'd right after purchase.) MVA: You cannot modify the exhaust system in any way. You cannot have excessive noise - defined within a threshold. Each exhaust tip must be the exact same diameter. Threshold = 86 db (?) CVSE: Threshold = 86 db (?) Police: All cars are illegal if they don't sound like what they expect. You cannot change factory. Reality: BMW M performance, Jaguar F-Type, MOST MFG cars now crackle and pop from factory. If the cars were approved for sale in Canada, they are legal. 4cylinder cars sound different from 6 or 8 cylinder cars. There should be more information in this thread. This thread was originally purposed to gather information. Seeing that with 90 pages and most recently lots of troll posts, it's not very useful in gathering information. However, it is very evident that there are facts in this thread as many of us has done the research. I'd rather not waste all our efforts. This is a Google docs link where you can help me inform the media of specific instances and points to bring up. If you have the time and knowledge, please add to it, as I will be bringing this to the media. When adding points please specify your source or specific instances (ie. MVA, Section 1, Chapter 2, Note 3. ; CVSE: S(1),C(2),N(3); Westopher's car/Skunkworks car/FRS) I will be constantly monitoring this document for trolls and document accuracy. It is currently open to edit by anybody but I will change it to comment on if need be. Please follow the above guidelines. If you have a comment, use the comment feature. If you have a suggested change, use the suggestion feature. There is the feature of revision history, so I will be able to see what has been modified. Thanks everyone. Last edited by BIC_BAWS; 02-10-2019 at 11:08 AM.