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Traum · 10-16-2023, 09:39 PM

2004 Honda Civic SE (ES1)

(Somehow this turned out to be much longer than I had anticipated...

)

Back in 2010, somehow I came to the conclusion that I needed a more practical vehicle than my Miata, but I didn't really want to spend a lot of money. So I went out to look for a beater, mostly focusing on different variants and generations of Civic / Integra. Originally, I really wanted to pick up an EG or EK Civic. But nearly all EG / EK within my budget was either pretty beat up, or suffering from varying degrees of rust cancer, so I began looking into the slightly newer ES Civics as well.

As I started researching into the car, it turned out that the early model years (01 - 03) were giant pieces of turd, with Honda seriously dropping the ball on a large number of normal everyday reliability aspects. But then with the 04 - 05 facelift, they actually fixed up all the reliability issues, and that is the car I ended up with -- a 04 facelifted 4-door ES1 car. It was the SE model, which basically meant it was the base stripper DX model (complete with manual crank windows!), but with A/C and a factory CD player already installed when they are optional equipment in the DX, plus a faux ground effects / body kit that made it looks more "sporty". I actually liked the car being a stripper model because it meant it was lighter than the higher trim models -- I think it was only in the high 2300 to low 2400 lbs range. The only thing I wished it had was ABS.

Drivetrain

Spoiler!

After taking ownership of the car, I went through a cycle of refreshing it, catching up on all the deferred maintenance. With an (engine) valve adjustment and a switch to synthetic (engine) oil, the 170k+ km engine was butter smooth and purring like it was brand new all over again. I was honestly super surprised at how smooth and strong the engine was despite all that mileage. Power delivery was responsive, and the engine was willing to rev, but naturally, there wasn't a lot of oomph in the top end, even though the engine was certainly willing to go there. Wikipedia says it has 122hp / 110 lb-ft; I swear to God that it does NOT have 120hp.

Since the car was basically a DX model, it only had the non-VTEC D17A1 engine. At the time, all my car friends were warning me against picking up a 7th gen Civic, and the engine was one of their reasons. According to my friends, the D16Y engine was more receptive to modding, as was the EK platform. The D17 engine, however, practically had no aftermarket support. More over, the engine was pretty much maxed out in stock form already. But from my perspective, stock-for-stock, I found the D16 engine to be much weaker (have less low end to mid range torque) than the D17 engine was. For basic rolling around town, I thought the added torque from the D17 engine was more useful.

The engine was NOT picky about the gas it was fed -- it ran well and behaved about the same regardless of the brand or octane level of the gas that was used. (So naturally, I only fed it regular gas after a few trials.) The engine was generally not picky about the oil that was put into it either as long as it was the right grade (viscosity), although I would still say the switch to synthetic made the engine run noticeably smoother.

At 170k+ km, the engine consumed a tiny amount of oil, although I have forgotten the exact amount it needed over the course of an oil change. A little top up every now and then was all it needed -- it'd consume a little more oil if I were running the engine under high rpms (such as when I take the car to the track). The shifter felt a bit flimsy / cheap, but engagement always had a crisp and positive feel. It was certainly a shifter (and gearbox) that I enjoyed rowing.

The engine had a stupid factory air intake location where it was basically drawing hot air in from the engine bay.

I rigged up a ghetto cold fresh air intake that would funnel some cold fresh air from the front grill, and it made a noticeable (and measurable) difference to the IAT, as well as a small difference to power.

Handling

Spoiler!

The car had 170k+ when I took ownership of it, and it was still running on original shocks and everything. So naturally, the shocks were all worn out and way past overdue for replacing. But since none of them were leaking yet, I was being cheap and didn't bother to replace anything. The steering was light and generally provided good feedback, but there was a small amount of vagueness, likely due to the tie rods / control arms / bushings being as well-used as they were. And this vagueness deterioated over the course of my ownership almost certainly because of the motorsports activities that I have put the car through LOL~

The car had a decent chassis that was light and surprisingly responsive. Weight balance was what you'd expect from a typical FWD, but I'd actually say it was more "tail-light" instead of "front heavy" because the whole car was pretty light. Coupled together with the worn out shocks that basically offered zero body motion control in any sort of semi-aggressive driving, it made for some *really* interesting handling characteristics. Minute amounts of trail braking would cause the rear end to step out, and it was super easy to induce and sustain a FWD drift when a sweeper turn is taken aggressively. But this is also one of the reasons that I liked the chassis -- the handling behaviour of the car was always linear, progressive, and easily predictable. At any point during my shenanigans, I'd say I generally have a very good idea of how much control I still have over the car, and can adjust accordingly. IMO, the wheelbase of the car also played a key role in this. In my current M2, the wheelbase is much shorter, and that doesn't give the driver very much warning or time to correct once the rear end starts walking sideways. But with the Civic, it was long enough to be stable and predictable, yet still short enough to be agile.

The 7th gen Civic takes a lot of flak from the (online?) car community for ditching the double wishbone suspension from the 6th gen car to the Mac strut configuration, as well as having a poor IRS design. Inherently, of course there is a degree of truth to the accusations, and the initial 01 - 03 model run was using undersized front struts that lead to premature failure. But at least in stock form of the facelifted cars, I'd say the suspension design works well enough for 95% of the usage the car will see, and that includes light motorsports use as well as everyday mundane driving.

The handling behaviour of the beater Civic actually made me a much better driver than I was before owning the car, because it forced me to practice the textbook skills in high performance driving -- brake in a straight line, coordinate your steering and throttle inputs, control the car through the throttle, and of course, "staying on gas" as with any FWD high performance driving situation lol~ It was a *LOT* of fun.

Practicality

Spoiler!

Reliability

Spoiler!

Final Words

The 7th gen Civic gets a bad name from the casual car enthusiast community. Part of it came from the failures of the early model year cars, but I'd say a good chuck of it also came from people just being armchair experts as opposed to having actual real life experience with the car. Speaking from first hand experience, I'd say the facelifted cars were fantastic in a very utilitarian way -- it wasn't a thoroughbred, and shouldn't be expected to perform like one just because its prececessor had elements of it. Instead, the car was an ultra reliable and willing workhorse. It was always there; it was not picky, and things always just worked. It was already punching way above its weight class, and shouldn't be criticized for being something it wasn't. I wish I had bought one since new (but not the 01-03 model).

10-16-2023, 09:39 PM	#144
Traum RS.net, helping ugly ppl have sex since 2001 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Paradise, BC Posts: 8,381 Thanked 8,148 Times in 3,389 Posts Failed 262 Times in 148 Posts	2004 Honda Civic SE (ES1) (Somehow this turned out to be much longer than I had anticipated... ) Back in 2010, somehow I came to the conclusion that I needed a more practical vehicle than my Miata, but I didn't really want to spend a lot of money. So I went out to look for a beater, mostly focusing on different variants and generations of Civic / Integra. Originally, I really wanted to pick up an EG or EK Civic. But nearly all EG / EK within my budget was either pretty beat up, or suffering from varying degrees of rust cancer, so I began looking into the slightly newer ES Civics as well. As I started researching into the car, it turned out that the early model years (01 - 03) were giant pieces of turd, with Honda seriously dropping the ball on a large number of normal everyday reliability aspects. But then with the 04 - 05 facelift, they actually fixed up all the reliability issues, and that is the car I ended up with -- a 04 facelifted 4-door ES1 car. It was the SE model, which basically meant it was the base stripper DX model (complete with manual crank windows!), but with A/C and a factory CD player already installed when they are optional equipment in the DX, plus a faux ground effects / body kit that made it looks more "sporty". I actually liked the car being a stripper model because it meant it was lighter than the higher trim models -- I think it was only in the high 2300 to low 2400 lbs range. The only thing I wished it had was ABS. Drivetrain Spoiler! After taking ownership of the car, I went through a cycle of refreshing it, catching up on all the deferred maintenance. With an (engine) valve adjustment and a switch to synthetic (engine) oil, the 170k+ km engine was butter smooth and purring like it was brand new all over again. I was honestly super surprised at how smooth and strong the engine was despite all that mileage. Power delivery was responsive, and the engine was willing to rev, but naturally, there wasn't a lot of oomph in the top end, even though the engine was certainly willing to go there. Wikipedia says it has 122hp / 110 lb-ft; I swear to God that it does NOT have 120hp. Since the car was basically a DX model, it only had the non-VTEC D17A1 engine. At the time, all my car friends were warning me against picking up a 7th gen Civic, and the engine was one of their reasons. According to my friends, the D16Y engine was more receptive to modding, as was the EK platform. The D17 engine, however, practically had no aftermarket support. More over, the engine was pretty much maxed out in stock form already. But from my perspective, stock-for-stock, I found the D16 engine to be much weaker (have less low end to mid range torque) than the D17 engine was. For basic rolling around town, I thought the added torque from the D17 engine was more useful. The engine was NOT picky about the gas it was fed -- it ran well and behaved about the same regardless of the brand or octane level of the gas that was used. (So naturally, I only fed it regular gas after a few trials.) The engine was generally not picky about the oil that was put into it either as long as it was the right grade (viscosity), although I would still say the switch to synthetic made the engine run noticeably smoother. At 170k+ km, the engine consumed a tiny amount of oil, although I have forgotten the exact amount it needed over the course of an oil change. A little top up every now and then was all it needed -- it'd consume a little more oil if I were running the engine under high rpms (such as when I take the car to the track). The shifter felt a bit flimsy / cheap, but engagement always had a crisp and positive feel. It was certainly a shifter (and gearbox) that I enjoyed rowing. The engine had a stupid factory air intake location where it was basically drawing hot air in from the engine bay. I rigged up a ghetto cold fresh air intake that would funnel some cold fresh air from the front grill, and it made a noticeable (and measurable) difference to the IAT, as well as a small difference to power. Handling Spoiler! The car had 170k+ when I took ownership of it, and it was still running on original shocks and everything. So naturally, the shocks were all worn out and way past overdue for replacing. But since none of them were leaking yet, I was being cheap and didn't bother to replace anything. The steering was light and generally provided good feedback, but there was a small amount of vagueness, likely due to the tie rods / control arms / bushings being as well-used as they were. And this vagueness deterioated over the course of my ownership almost certainly because of the motorsports activities that I have put the car through LOL~ The car had a decent chassis that was light and surprisingly responsive. Weight balance was what you'd expect from a typical FWD, but I'd actually say it was more "tail-light" instead of "front heavy" because the whole car was pretty light. Coupled together with the worn out shocks that basically offered zero body motion control in any sort of semi-aggressive driving, it made for some really interesting handling characteristics. Minute amounts of trail braking would cause the rear end to step out, and it was super easy to induce and sustain a FWD drift when a sweeper turn is taken aggressively. But this is also one of the reasons that I liked the chassis -- the handling behaviour of the car was always linear, progressive, and easily predictable. At any point during my shenanigans, I'd say I generally have a very good idea of how much control I still have over the car, and can adjust accordingly. IMO, the wheelbase of the car also played a key role in this. In my current M2, the wheelbase is much shorter, and that doesn't give the driver very much warning or time to correct once the rear end starts walking sideways. But with the Civic, it was long enough to be stable and predictable, yet still short enough to be agile. The 7th gen Civic takes a lot of flak from the (online?) car community for ditching the double wishbone suspension from the 6th gen car to the Mac strut configuration, as well as having a poor IRS design. Inherently, of course there is a degree of truth to the accusations, and the initial 01 - 03 model run was using undersized front struts that lead to premature failure. But at least in stock form of the facelifted cars, I'd say the suspension design works well enough for 95% of the usage the car will see, and that includes light motorsports use as well as everyday mundane driving. The handling behaviour of the beater Civic actually made me a much better driver than I was before owning the car, because it forced me to practice the textbook skills in high performance driving -- brake in a straight line, coordinate your steering and throttle inputs, control the car through the throttle, and of course, "staying on gas" as with any FWD high performance driving situation lol~ It was a LOT of fun. Practicality Spoiler! Visibility from the driver seat was superb -- the car had a low cowl and a short hood that sloped down; the A-pillars were thin, and the greenhouse had large windows. The trunk was a bit tall, so rearward visibility was not as good as the forward one, but it still wasn't poor by any means. The visibility from the driver's seat was something I miss dearly because most (all?) modern cars have stupid high cowls and shoulder lines as a result of the higher crash standards now. The car was hands-down amazing when it comes to utility and practicality. It really wasn't a large car by any stretch of imagination, but every bit of the car was designed with utility and usability in mind. All the controls were within easy and intuitive reach of the driver. Interior appointments were spartan but comfortable and sensible. The rear flat floor made putting stuff into the back of the car a breeze. The trunk was simply ginormous. Even without folding down the seats, it could swallow 1 giant suitcase + 1 carry-on suitcase with room to spare. And with the rear seats folded down, it could swallow even more. The spare wheel well cover / trunk liner board was a cheap and flimsy piece of particle board. It was rather surprising to see Honda cheaping out on something like that. Access to basic maintenance items for the average non-car enthusiast owner was fantastic. All the fluids openings were easily accessible, and all the light bulb locations were super easy to get to. I don't think I have ever changed the bulbs in the head and brake lights in any of my cars as fast as I did with the beater Civic -- they were readily accessible. By contrast, the service maintenance fire hoops that VW engineers make you jump through made me want to strangle those very same VW engineers... Reliability Spoiler! The original owner of the car basically did nothing more than basic oil changes, maybe one brake fluid change, and some basic replacement of consumables, and nothing broke on the car over the course of its initial 170k km run. With a good amount of refreshening, the car went on to run like a champ for me despite the abuse that I have put it through. I obviously drove it all over the place and on road trips -- including on access roads to get to hiking trail heads; took it to autox and track days; used it to haul all kinds of stuff; made good use of the backseats just for the heck of it LOL~ Honda had dropped the ball with the initial release of the car, even though there were a lot of good and thoughtful designs built into it. Fortunately, they were able to clean up their act, and the facelifted version of the 7th gen car was exemplary, showcasing Honda's well-deserved reputation as an auto manufacturer. Final Words The 7th gen Civic gets a bad name from the casual car enthusiast community. Part of it came from the failures of the early model year cars, but I'd say a good chuck of it also came from people just being armchair experts as opposed to having actual real life experience with the car. Speaking from first hand experience, I'd say the facelifted cars were fantastic in a very utilitarian way -- it wasn't a thoroughbred, and shouldn't be expected to perform like one just because its prececessor had elements of it. Instead, the car was an ultra reliable and willing workhorse. It was always there; it was not picky, and things always just worked. It was already punching way above its weight class, and shouldn't be criticized for being something it wasn't. I wish I had bought one since new (but not the 01-03 model).