Electric and Hybrid Car Thread

[Koflach]

Deliveries for the Lucid Air have started. It's an interesting looking car but is the current king of the road for range.

https://insideevs.com/news/544452/lu...veries-begins/

[BlackV62K2]

Price on the Lucid Air models . I suppose the Air Touring would be competing with the Model S?

[Traum]

At the risk of sounding like Captain Obvious, we need more EVs choices at the affordable end of the spectrum, not the super ultra luxury end.

With the 4680 battery, I hope we'll begin to see some cheaper cars from different manufacturers. But if you were a manufacturer and you suddenly see a 15% drop in your manufacturing costs, how much of that savings would you actually pass down to the consumer?

[JDMDreams]

There is this, but I haven't seen any real ones yet.



https://driving.ca/reviews/first-dri...58c1931c0/amp/

[Traum]

Call me biased -- but I have zero interest in a brand that has yet to prove themselves in after sales service and long term reliability. This isn't a $300 Chinese phone that I wouldn't mind breaking. It isn't a $3k beater, nor is it even a $30k car. If I am spending that much money on a piece of something, I am going to ask for some peace of mind that my purchase wouldn't suddenly get orphaned.

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

There is this, but I haven't seen any real ones yet.

https://driving.ca/reviews/first-dri...58c1931c0/amp/

[Koflach]

Originally Posted by Traum

At the risk of sounding like Captain Obvious, we need more EVs choices at the affordable end of the spectrum, not the super ultra luxury end.

I completely agree that we need more affordable over luxury but Tesla has proven a successful business model of starting with high end cars and for each vehicle after, come out with more and more affordable vehicles. You have to walk before you can run.

[JDMDreams]

I haven't looked into this but are there battery upgrades for older cars? Slap some lithium batteries into a leaf or imev?

[Alpine]

Originally Posted by Traum

At the risk of sounding like Captain Obvious, we need more EVs choices at the affordable end of the spectrum, not the super ultra luxury end.

Impossible to accomplish from a new manufacturer since affordable segment = volume seller. Give it another 5 years for EV tech to continue to trickle down to the more affordable models of mass manufacturers, but it's likely 10+ years before everyone turns into their parents and drives a beige corolla EV.

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

I haven't looked into this but are there battery upgrades for older cars? Slap some lithium batteries into a leaf or imev?

Yes and no.
A few companies have figured out a way to install the newer Leaf batteries into older Leafs.
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/12/17...han-200-miles/

Then you have the online debate about replacing bad cells in Tesla battery packs.
Rich Rebuilds was saying they were able to replace bad modules whereas others have said it gives off an error code.

[SumAznGuy]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alistai...h=c2088ac784d8

Good that Tesla is looking at opening up their charging stations to other EV brands.

[M Speed]

Originally Posted by SumAznGuy

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alistai...h=c2088ac784d8

Good that Tesla is looking at opening up their charging stations to other EV brands.

They use CCS over there for tesla so it's an easy switch. However it's a different story here in NA. So it comes down to pricing and cost of adaptors.

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by M Speed

They use CCS over there for tesla so it's an easy switch. However it's a different story here in NA. So it comes down to pricing and cost of adaptors.

I wonder when someone will step up and make it so that there is 1 plug that is industry standard.
It's very annoying that there are 4 different plugs. The good thing is it looks like Chademo is on it's way out so that leaves 3.

[!Aznboi128]

Originally Posted by SumAznGuy

I wonder when someone will step up and make it so that there is 1 plug that is industry standard.
It's very annoying that there are 4 different plugs. The good thing is it looks like Chademo is on it's way out so that leaves 3.

That's before Apple comes out with their car

[Traum]

Originally Posted by SumAznGuy

I wonder when someone will step up and make it so that there is 1 plug that is industry standard.
It's very annoying that there are 4 different plugs. The good thing is it looks like Chademo is on it's way out so that leaves 3.

Considering how long it took the smart phone industry to mostly converge to a single type of connector, I'd say the chances of that happening is next no nil -- unless at least several major western countries begin to legislate a standardization.

[roastpuff]

Anyone going to the Porsche Taycan driving experience event on Nov 5/6? I don't have the money for one but I still want to try driving one. Will be there Sat Nov 6 at 11AM.

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by Traum

Considering how long it took the smart phone industry to mostly converge to a single type of connector, I'd say the chances of that happening is next no nil -- unless at least several major western countries begin to legislate a standardization.

At least there is only 2 for cell phones. USB-C and the Iphone Lightening cables.

Can you imagine if they came out with 2 or more different nozzles to fill gas in ICE cars.

[tegra7]

Model 3 SR+ now comes with more range, rear heated seats and heated steering wheel. 0-100 has gone up from 5.6 to 6.1 seconds due to extra weight.
Pic borrowed from Reddit


determine screen size

[Manic!]

The only way we are going to get one connector is via government regulation. Before the EU stepped in we use to have a ton of different charging cables for phones. We are now down to 2 and soon 1 because the EU is forcing everyone to use USB-C.

[trollface]

I don't think the EU had anything to do with the cable changes in the past 20 years. We honestly just had a bunch of shitty connectors that got phased out due to hitting bandwidth bottlenecks.

Mini/Micro/32/Serial/the weird round mouse and keyboard one. Those were all just straight-up trash but there was nothing better at the time. Personal devices were all a pretty new market so there was no standardization at all. The EU didn't really have anything to do with the changes back then.

AUX, Serial, HDMI, DP, the square printer one, the weird Sata on the Galaxy S, VGA, DVI....

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by trollface

I don't think the EU had anything to do with the cable changes in the past 20 years. We honestly just had a bunch of shitty connectors that got phased out due to hitting bandwidth bottlenecks.

Mini/Micro/32/Serial/the weird round mouse and keyboard one. Those were all just straight-up trash but there was nothing better at the time. Personal devices were all a pretty new market so there was no standardization at all. The EU didn't really have anything to do with the changes back then.

AUX, Serial, HDMI, DP, the square printer one, the weird Sata on the Galaxy S, VGA, DVI....

You mis-read what Manic is saying.
If the EU had their way, every phone will be using USB-C, including iphones.
But you are correct, micro USB was replaced by USB-C due to better speeds.

[trollface]

I honestly don't think we need to legislate anything in regards to phones.

Let's be honest, the company we're talking about here is Apple and their lightning. Most phones sold now are all on USB-C. A lot of Apple products are already moving to C (ipads) etc. This EU push is going to be pretty moot in about 1-2 years when Iphones make the switch IMO. 90% of their products are already C.

I personally don't like lighting, but I am also not a huge fan of govt telling companies how to design tech products. Most of the people making these laws don't even know the Iphone isn't made by Google and openly calls the the CEO Tim Apple in front of Congress.

Do we really want ppl as old as Stonehenge making these laws?

I feel like EV is in the same boat as the early 2000's when it comes to laptops/phones/mp3 players. No one has any idea what's going on, what works, what doesn't. Everyone just wants to be first to market to grab customers. I thnk we'll see a natural progression and standardization on the plug when the market/tech matures a little. The EV market is VERY new compared to the IC.

Let's be honest here, in order for EV to work, we need mass adoption propelled by infrastructure that will support it (charging stations etc). It's really in everyone's interest to agree on one so you don't have to foot the entire bill of creating this system on your own dime. No one is going to buy a car from you if you can only charge it at your stations, it's kind of suicide. Tesla is even letting other cars use their stations now and it makes perfect sense.

I honestly think this problem will take care of itself when all the manufacturers get a few more years under their belts. You can stick a Canadian 120v appliance into a 220v socket and blow it up, I imagine a lot of these problems apply to the EV world. These problems can be solved, but that means costs, which may make your pricepoint too high, or you've got no product to deliver when your competition is grabbing market share in a market that's on FIRE.

The first gas car came out in 1885, the first gas pump that resembles our modern pump didn't appear till 1913.

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by trollface

I don't think the EU had anything to do with the cable changes in the past 20 years. We honestly just had a bunch of shitty connectors that got phased out due to hitting bandwidth bottlenecks.

Mini/Micro/32/Serial/the weird round mouse and keyboard one. Those were all just straight-up trash but there was nothing better at the time. Personal devices were all a pretty new market so there was no standardization at all. The EU didn't really have anything to do with the changes back then.

AUX, Serial, HDMI, DP, the square printer one, the weird Sata on the Galaxy S, VGA, DVI....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common...l_power_supply

In 2009, a European Commission initiative resulted in the specification of a common external power supply (common EPS) for use with data-enabled mobile phones sold in the European Union. The external power supply is the AC electric power adapter that converts household AC electricity voltages to the much lower DC voltages needed to charge a mobile phone's internal battery. Although compliance is voluntary, a majority of the world's largest mobile phone manufacturers agreed to make their applicable mobile phones compatible with Europe's common external power supply specification (EN 62684:2010).

https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/23/eu...r-for-mobiles/

EU lawmakers are finally set to standardize charging ports for consumer electronics devices like smartphones and tablets — announcing a proposal today that, once adopted, will see the region settle on USB-C as a universal charging port for gadgets which will also include cameras, headphones, portable speakers and handheld videogames consoles.

Some smaller consumer electronics devices — like smart watches and fitness bands — are being excluded owing to factors like their size and conditions of use.

[M Speed]

Originally Posted by SumAznGuy

I wonder when someone will step up and make it so that there is 1 plug that is industry standard.
It's very annoying that there are 4 different plugs. The good thing is it looks like Chademo is on it's way out so that leaves 3.

But that leaves all these EVs with Chademo with no quick charger.

Standardization without govt will be impossible. Every manufacturer will say one is superior than the other. Look at the smartphone, all andriod are now Type C and Apple is their lighting plug. EU had them mandated to ship with microUSB then....apple had to ship with USB cable and a lighting adaptor.

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by M Speed

But that leaves all these EVs with Chademo with no quick charger.

Trollface isn't wrong.
At one point in time there was the great VHS vs Beta debate.
Beta was superior but VHS won.
Recently, there was Blu ray vs HD DVD's and Blue ray won out.

Chademo cars will eventually need an adaptor to charge at a Tesla supercharger just like Tesla's needing an adaptor to charge at DC fast chargers or on a level 2 charger with a J plug.

[tegra7]

Ioniq 5 price released
https://insideevs.com/news/545577/hy...prices-canada/